Welcome to InspirePilots.com

Join the leading DJI Inspire community for free!

A call for transparency and truth!

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Chnjab, Jan 14, 2016.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Chnjab

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2015
    Messages:
    81
    Likes Received:
    74
    I have now participated quite regularly in the continuing conversation that takes place here for about a half a year. I understand in comparison to many that is a very short time. I'm sure many have noticed though I choose my words carefully I call it as I see it. I'm beginning to sense a clear and present undercurrent that leads me to believe that DJI exerts undue influence in what is posted here. I recognize the Editor more than once has alluded to job offers and that many here act a beta testers so there exists a constant conflict of interest between the truth and what DJI would like communicated by defacto Employees. I watched Machoman be banned for spreading to much truth to forcefully. Unfortunately sometimes it seemed to be laced with unsubstantiated fiction. Even so I find that censorship troubling. I have been very careful not to yell fire in the theater or claim the sky is falling and have done my share of defending a company that grew at a rate they hadn't planned in their wildest dreams to. All that said it doesn't forgive thievery or fraud EVER. So I ask simply though this site provides excellent information and seemed to be a place where honest conversations about truthful experiences was promoted is that all being manipulated by the fact that this site is influenced heavily by DJI indeirectly? Second and more importantly as this all grows are we all comfortable renting equipment costing in excess of 8K in some cases and at least 3k in most. I say renting as we are and many have become blind to it. Does the equipment you purchased have the features it did when you paid for it? Does it have the features you were promised when you paid for it? Do you have a say what features are removed from your equipment? Do you have a say what features are added to it? Do you have a choice as to the service of your equipment? So after one answers these questions can you say whether you really own your equipment or are you simply renting it? I've asked myself these questions and have become thoroughly disgusted. As I was one of those lucky enough to be warned I called foul when I unboxed my PRO with the 1410 transmitter. I have an exchange waiting at my retailer I'm becoming more confident will be an outright return as will the 14 lenses still eligible for return. The rest I'll sell. I wish you all good day and implore you to take the blind folds off.
     
    Nicknsquid likes this.
  2. Dr. Ifly Drones

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2015
    Messages:
    285
    Likes Received:
    144
    Location:
    Nashville, TN USA
  3. Canuck32

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2015
    Messages:
    104
    Likes Received:
    33
    Location:
    Alberta, Canada
    The way things are going, anything that has software in it manufactures are arguing that you don't own it and only have an implied lease.
    We Can’t Let John Deere Destroy the Very Idea of Ownership
    "
    IT’S OFFICIAL: JOHN Deere and General Motors want to eviscerate the notion of ownership. Sure, we pay for their vehicles. But we don’t own them. Not according to their corporate lawyers, anyway.

    In a particularly spectacular display of corporate delusion, John Deere—the world’s largest agricultural machinery maker —told the Copyright Office that farmers don’t own their tractors. Because computer code snakes through the DNA of modern tractors, farmers receive “an implied license for the life of the vehicle to operate the vehicle.”

    It’s John Deere’s tractor, folks. You’re just driving it.

    Several manufacturers recently submitted similar comments to the Copyright Office under an inquiry into the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. DMCA is a vast 1998 copyright law that (among other things) governs the blurry line between software and hardware. The Copyright Office, after reading the comments and holding a hearing, will decide in July which high-tech devices we can modify, hack, and repair—and decide whether John Deere’s twisted vision of ownership will become a reality."
     
    Drone Vision likes this.
  4. Kilrah

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2015
    Messages:
    1,881
    Likes Received:
    728
    I see nothing but a community like any other in this world, online or not.

    What you see here (and what you may not see) happens in any group of interest. Take *your* blindfolds off, the fair, factual, non-opinionated venue you're looking for doesn't exist.

    I'd bet that for every DJI-versed member there is a hater or frustrated competitor that's having a blast at bashing the products for no reason and without any insight.
    Excess always goes both ways, fights, and hopefully evens out.

    Envoyé de mon SM-G920F en utilisant Tapatalk
     
    jon b, PB30X and InspiredOne like this.
  5. IrishSights

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2014
    Messages:
    1,955
    Likes Received:
    453
    Location:
    Bangor, Northern Ireland, UK
    @Chnjab, I appreciate you being able to voice your opinion on this. However I must admit I see no signs of this site being indirectly being influenced by DJI. @The Editor can speak for himself, however he did turn down a job offer from DJI and stated his reasons. I have heard more grumbling against DJI from him than for. He has been 'for' being honourable to NDA and the like which I would support.

    I think we all know the 'character' of DJI, faults and all, so I think most of us are with you there. And they do need called out publicly if they have deceived their customers, at the very least apologising and correct it. The ability to influence is practically very low, sadly. Again there has been known, and probably some unknown, improvement requests that have been submitted to DJI via IP.com, so it's not all black, not saying you are saying it is.

    You make a plausible case for calling it rental, but really it is not rental. If it was rental I would not own it, and I do. If it was rented I could not sell it, which I can, I would be paying rent, which I am not. With the nature of the product and the market environment I can see why they evolve the product. What most of us don't like is the forced and nature and wisdom of some of the 'features'.

    Machoman did make some good points, but he did go on a bit which can eventually and unintentionally become trolling in nature. I'm not sure most here would know the true reason for the ban, it certainly was not just for knocking DJI, most of us would be banned if that was the case.

    Bottom line is I am all for transparency and truth even if truth has perspectives.
     
    #5 IrishSights, Jan 14, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2016
    jon b, Busch, CraigS and 5 others like this.
  6. tweaker

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2015
    Messages:
    340
    Likes Received:
    76
    I take on some valid points you make.

    However I do not buy into conspiracy theories.

    If DJI do not produce the goods people will go elsewhere.

    They are starting to see serious competitors on the horizon and I am willing to bet 18 months from now customer service/firmware updates(dji achilles heel) will be vastly improved.

    This is happening with NFZs.How good this will be is yet to be seen.

    If the forum talks nonsense/dji party line I will be like a sponge and take what I need and squeeze out the rest. I do this with all media as everyone has an "angle".

    Dji will evolve purely as a result of competition.

    It has no option.
     
  7. World Media

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2015
    Messages:
    237
    Likes Received:
    102
    Location:
    Kingston, Jamaica
    Look.... here is my view! for what its worth.
    • The Editor may or may not be associated with DJI or any other organization, frankly I don't care his ( and others) contributions to this forum are considerable and beneficial to the members.
    • I and others are diametrically opposed to the way changes are made to the product we bought understanding that improvements would be made, but I don't feel that is a bi product of this forum.
    • I may not always agree with the way threads are locked, sometimes I would prefer to see them run their course, even though there are older similar threads ...IMHO its more about bringing the discussion and argument to a new audience.
    • Does DJI influence the forum? .... I would expect so ... If I was DJI I would be influencing EVERY forum that discusses my products ... there is nothing wrong with that.
    • Do I feel that I can always freely speak my mind? NO I don't ... but its not MY forum its controlled by others that don't always like my opinion or the way I express it so I try to filter the way I do both.
    Ultimately .... if we don't like it we are free to start our own Forum .... but by and large we don't ... why ? because it takes a lot of effort and time and commitment and we can never please all the people all the time.
    There are many things that the OP mentions relating to DJI that I agree with to some extent. However .... this is a Forum ..... we can leave when we want if we don't like the way it is run.
    I for one thank those that maintain this space and look forward to discussing issues with Inspire and DJI going forward.
     
    STClassic01, PB30X, Kilrah and 3 others like this.
  8. The Editor

    The Editor Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2013
    Messages:
    6,718
    Likes Received:
    3,872
    OK, let me put the record straight on a few things.

    • DJI have absolutely no influence over this forum
    • We are free to discuss, praise or redicule DJI as we see fit (other than under the usual laws of libel which is true of any individual or organisation)
    • This is a privately owned forum that has zero sponsorship from DJI
    • I am not affiliated or controlled or told what to do or say by DJI in any way - yes I AM under an NDA with them but so are many others. I respect that and probably give more away than I should
    • I give up my time for free to moderate this forum and it takes up a LOT of my free/private time
    • I did received a job offer from DJI which I have not taken up
    This forum is probably policed a little stricter than some and this has probably added to its popularity. It means off topic ramblings are jumped on and locked and sensible, helpful threads are allowed to run.
    If is also a lot better organised and searchable than many - The 'official DJI Forum included.

    I am not going to enter into any more discussion on this thread as quite frankly it is not worth my time - I have better things to do.

    People will believe whatever they want to at the end of the day but I will say it once more - DJI have zero influence over what I say on these forums and have NEVER censored anything or told me to delete or retract any statement I have made.
     
    jon b, Busch, Frazier and 12 others like this.
  9. steelkite

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2015
    Messages:
    94
    Likes Received:
    27
    that being said, and all very important information to us all, with respect to op & ed ...............

    my inspire flew much better, many firmware versions ago
     
    Chnjab likes this.
  10. Mazz

    Mazz Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2014
    Messages:
    944
    Likes Received:
    585
    Location:
    NY
    I will go further and say you have not been here very long. In the beginning, half of our threads were people complaining about DJI. People would talk about their threads getting shut down by DJI on Facebook and in their forums so they came to us to vent. We supported and even agreed with most of them. I have been here since before the release of the inspire and I can tell you that no one on our end even has that much love for them. They are another large company who grew faster than they knew how to and they are making a ton of mistakes along the way.
    As for The Editor, he was hand picked by none other than yours truly and it was because of his knowledge and activity on the forum. So if he was some kind of plant, they got me good. As someone who looks at most of the posts on the forum, I am having trouble figuring out where this even stems from. No where do we censor negativity towards DJI. We work pretty hard to keep things unbiased and informative so you may see why such claims could..... annoy.
    DJI has zero, count them ZERO, influence on how I do my job here. By the way, you know this is a volunteer job don't you? Editor and I do this for freeeeeee. Purely to make this a better forum. Check out our intro threads. We both have much more serious jobs than "Inspire Forum Moderator."
     
    jon b, Frazier, STClassic01 and 10 others like this.
  11. SanCap

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2013
    Messages:
    1,330
    Likes Received:
    393
    Location:
    South West Florida
    Well said, I have been a long time lurker.
     
    #11 SanCap, Jan 15, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2016
  12. Mad_angler1

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2015
    Messages:
    439
    Likes Received:
    160
    It's both interesting and very sad that's the people who are just tying to help others or offer a balanced view on things are attacked and accused of having a hidden agenda or trying to suck up to DJI trying to get a job when the the reality it they just spend huge amounts of their own time and effort helping others because they can and want to.

    Those who do support DJI don't agree with everything they do and know there are real issues but some don't feel the need to shout and scream from the rooftops how bad everything is, instead some work in the background in the smallest ways possible to just try and make the odd thing better even, that may help one person or many people.

    I have no idea who The Editor is but from what I can see he is just trying to help folks out, sadly that puts you in the firing line and it's very unfair.
     
    Frazier and The Editor like this.
  13. InspiredOne

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2015
    Messages:
    1,140
    Likes Received:
    657
    Location:
    South Florida, USA
    Yes, we do realize that! You two have done such a fantastic job, we forum members feel very strongly that you and The Editor deserve no less than a 50% raise! :)
     
    Frazier, PB30X and The Editor like this.
  14. Kilrah

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2015
    Messages:
    1,881
    Likes Received:
    728
    To me that is something a court would have to establish or deny after a lengthy and detailed investigation, and goes way beyond the scope of this forum. I doubt you or anybody else here has anything remotely close to the amount of information and/or evidence and the experience/expertise needed to affirm that.

    If you feel that's what happened you should probably get going and start some kind of separate platform dedicated to that matter and start planning legal action with others who share your beliefs, but I don't think spewing such affirmations that may or may not be backed by more or less complete data and dubious analysis of it does any good to anyone here.
    It's actually the exact opposite of the transparency you're calling for, it's just bashing.
     
    #14 Kilrah, Jan 15, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2016
    InspiredOne, The Editor and SanCap like this.
  15. IrishSights

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2014
    Messages:
    1,955
    Likes Received:
    453
    Location:
    Bangor, Northern Ireland, UK
    @Chnjab,
    This is all getting a bit cloak and dagger stuff, which is not healthy even though there are questions that could do with some answers from DJI.

    I don't 'own' software but licence it. In real terms I do own it and use it for my purposes and for my gain. The Inspire is similar. I'm not going to change anything, I sleep well and use the tools available to do a job. The sky is not falling.

    I'm beginning to loss sight of what you hope to gain. I think your fighting in the wrong playground, your gripe is with DJI not with fellow inspire pilots.

    What exactly do you want from here by perpetuating the cause you stated?
     
    The Editor and Kilrah like this.
  16. tweaker

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2015
    Messages:
    340
    Likes Received:
    76
    I really have re read your post and I am trying to see your point but it comes out a bit of a ramble to be honest.

    You did sterling with your delve into lens compatibility etc and I feel you are a good guy on this forum.

    However your BFO Paragraph just does not make precise points and really loses me.

    Your general point about not really owning anything DJI could apply to almost anything if you take it to extremes.

    Please stay on board and contribute but I really think you are barking up the wrong tree and generating stress that does not really need to be generated.

    Stay lucky
     
    The Editor likes this.
  17. InspiredOne

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2015
    Messages:
    1,140
    Likes Received:
    657
    Location:
    South Florida, USA
    Humm... let me see... what is that term for a written defamatory statement...?

    Ah! I remember... libel.
     
    Kilrah likes this.
  18. Chnjab

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2015
    Messages:
    81
    Likes Received:
    74

    There are several ways a person must go about proving that libel has taken place. For example, in the United States, the person must prove that the statement was false, caused harm, and was made without adequate research into the truthfulness of the statement. These steps are for an ordinary citizen. http://www.inspirepilots.com/media/albums/test-pdf.44/
     
  19. Air Miles

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2015
    Messages:
    104
    Likes Received:
    40
    Location:
    USA
    OK everybody,

    Go look at my post on the "Classifieds" under "Inspire 1 V2 For Sale, Flown Four Times"
    I should have posted here but I did it there. I'm all in and am very confident that my post will curl some toes and wake up I1v2 owners that has, on the battery tray, T600 FCC#####1410.
    I as well as Chnjab has put a lot of time in this to investigate and expose this issue. I have e-mailed To DJI all transmitter spec sheets provided by DJI to the FCC to show them that all of the transmitter spec sheets are exposed to the public now.These show the facts that cannot be denied.
    I hope this helps all that have bought Pre Dec 3rd manufactured I1v2's that do not have the powered up I1v2 transmitter as well as the remote transmitter.
    I am through with my investigation and I hope this helps you guys so you can be treated fairly.
     
  20. Packetdancer

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2015
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    10
    I'd been lurking for quite a while before I joined, and I can genuinely say I never had the impression this forum was sucking up to DJI; I think I've seen more threads griping about their failures—real, subjective, and perceived alike—than singing their praises.

    And sure, some of that is because folks who are frustrated will vent, and when things are going absolutely perfectly, they'll be out taking videos or photos instead. But just in the past month, how many posts have we had of people complaining about the cold battery behavior in firmware? About the geofencing update being kind of halfassed and restrictive, with no real clear instruction on how you should (or if you can) override the behavior if you have permission to fly in an area? Or there's always the ever-popular Yet Another "What Were They Thinking?" CSC Thread.

    So, I doubt anyone on this forum would disagree that DJI's got some improvement to make in several key areas. We might disagree on what those areas are, but I don't think anyone believes they're running at quite 100%.

    That said, I don't think DJI's deliberately setting out to rip people off either. Sure, things seemingly went downhill a bit as they grew suddenly huge. And it's hard to deny they are falling short in a number of places right now. But your original post seems to imply intent, whereas I think this is literally more just a company that grew out of control and is kind of scrambling to keep on top of everything.

    I mean, detailed release notes on app and firmware builds take time for someone to write up, check over, and bundle up (and it's more time than you'd expect); if you cut the time short, things get left out or overlooked, especially since in larger companies the person writing the summary is probably not the one who wrote the app/firmware. Cutting corners on process because you're overwhelmed leads to incorrect parts being bundled. Customer service miscommunications. Etc.

    My time in the hardware and software industries has me watching this and coming away with the strong impression of a company who's found themselves juggling more balls than they expected and trying a little frantically to keep them in the air.

    That said, I also understand where you're coming from; you have a particular issue on your mind that seems worthy of outrage—and were I in your position, I would probably be pretty cheesed off too—but others aren't jumping to respond or chime in. From the depths of frustration and outrage, that could certainly lead to a perception that your issue is being swept under the rug or the forum is 'siding with the company'. But I suspect the truth of the matter is just more that others on the forum have other priorities on their mind (firmware 1.6, geofencing, etc.), not that the forum en masse is 'sucking up' to DJI.

    That's my $0.02, anyway. (Plus state sales tax where applicable.)
     
    tweaker likes this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.