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Are you shooting in LOG color and using DJI transcoder tool?

Not so fast. Two things to consider before skipping the transcoder...

Not meaning to sound argumentative, but if a person is going to be doing this beyond hobby level, i.e., professionally, then buy the proper equipment (computer) to do a proper job.

If your computer/video card cannot handle the files as InterMurph has suggested, it's time to upgrade. And, at the risk of sounding like a fan boy (I've used several NLEs over the years), I would strongly encourage you to try Adobe Premiere Pro CC (fully functioning 30-day trial). Adobe has made quantum leaps in the past couple of years in advancing what a NLE can do. The perceived downside might be that Adobe is also presuming you're not working on outdated equipment. In the end, it's to your professional advantage to keep up-to-date. After all, you've recently spent a minimum of $3,000 on your Inspire 1.

It's not all that different from buying a $10,000+ video camera and attempting to put it on a $500 tripod. Yeah, you can do it, but you ain't gonna like the results, and neither will your clients!
 
Not so fast. Two things to consider before skipping the transcoder.

Firstly even though the ProRes files that result from transcoding the Inspire H.264.mov camera originals are considerably larger for no gain in picture quality they are a lot less processor intensive in FCP NLE edit systems. Once you start doing more than a mere assembly edit (colour grades, unsharp masks, resizing/enlarging, graphics & motion effects etc) your processor will cry "enough!". Its a lot easier & cheaper to add external drives to boost storage capacity than upgrade processors.

Secondly as soon as your timeline contains footage from multiple sources (I've just completed a project with Inspire, Sony FS7 & Canon 5Dmk2 footage) or you are shooting footage with the Inspire for others to edit into their projects you will need to settle onto transcoding the various sources into a common format to proceed. ProRes is primarily an editing format, not an acquisition format although that is changing.
Very true.. It depends on the project, if you would rather deal with the crappy h264 NLE compatibility or wait to transcode GBs worth of clips.
 
Not so fast. Two things to consider before skipping the transcoder.

Firstly even though the ProRes files that result from transcoding the Inspire H.264.mov camera originals are considerably larger for no gain in picture quality they are a lot less processor intensive in FCP NLE edit systems. Once you start doing more than a mere assembly edit (colour grades, unsharp masks, resizing/enlarging, graphics & motion effects etc) your processor will cry "enough!". Its a lot easier & cheaper to add external drives to boost storage capacity than upgrade processors.

Secondly as soon as your timeline contains footage from multiple sources (I've just completed a project with Inspire, Sony FS7 & Canon 5Dmk2 footage) or you are shooting footage with the Inspire for others to edit into their projects you will need to settle onto transcoding the various sources into a common format to proceed. ProRes is primarily an editing format, not an acquisition format although that is changing.
Neither of these problems apply to Adobe Premiere Pro CC. Premiere does not require any transcoding; it can handle footage from all modern cameras with no problems.
 
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Neither of these problems apply to Adobe Premiere Pro CC. Premiere does not require any transcoding; it can handle footage from all modern cameras with no problems.
It doesn't play nicely with Phantom Flex footage at 10,000fps in an MXF wrapper though. :p
 
Not meaning to sound argumentative, but if a person is going to be doing this beyond hobby level, i.e., professionally, then buy the proper equipment (computer) to do a proper job.

If your computer/video card cannot handle the files as InterMurph has suggested, it's time to upgrade. And, at the risk of sounding like a fan boy (I've used several NLEs over the years), I would strongly encourage you to try Adobe Premiere Pro CC (fully functioning 30-day trial). Adobe has made quantum leaps in the past couple of years in advancing what a NLE can do. The perceived downside might be that Adobe is also presuming you're not working on outdated equipment. In the end, it's to your professional advantage to keep up-to-date. After all, you've recently spent a minimum of $3,000 on your Inspire 1.

It's not all that different from buying a $10,000+ video camera and attempting to put it on a $500 tripod. Yeah, you can do it, but you ain't gonna like the results, and neither will your clients!

No worries about sounding argumentative, this is an interesting subject. Bit of background info, without trying to sound like I'm swinging it. Been a professional cameraman all my working life & learnt to edit using film on a Steenbeck. My edit equipment is up to date & its far from appropriate for me to question my clients technical currency. This week I'm using an Arri Alexa on a TVC , a camera system with a 3 day hire cost greater than an Inspire's RRP, because the client wants to originate a first class image in ProRes in camera to then do extensive effects work upon. Also this week I'm in pre for a telefeature that the client (an international distributor) has specified delivery in ProRes because their delivery platform does the transcoding for different markets PAL NTSC Secam and suchlike from a ProRes master.

As far as these things can become in this industry ProRes is currently the closest we have to standardised post production platform & as the Inspire will be used by folk like me as only a small part of the capture tools on a project H.264. mov delivery just wont "cut it" ;) & an efficient conversion pathway to ProRes is essential.
 
Baldrick, most of what you wrote makes perfect sense. But I just don't see how it applies to the Inspire 1.

The Inspire camera produces video in the H.264 codec. That is the universal standard for cameras of its type. It is highly compressed, and as a result can be written to smaller and slower flash cards needed for such cameras.

All of the discussion around transcoding the Inspire H.264 footage to the Apple ProRes codec is inspired by a single failure: the fact that FInal Cut Pro just can't handle it very well. Why is that? I don't know. I can see how it may have been a weakness for FCP when H.264 first became widespread, but I don't understand how that weakness has persisted.

It is not at all a weakness for Premiere Pro, or for any other editing software that I am aware of. So it boils down to this: the only reason anybody would ever want to transcode H.264 footage to ProRes is to satisfy the shortcomings of a single editing software system.

So when you say "an efficient conversion pathway to ProRes is essential", I think you need to add a big asterisk.
 
No worries about sounding argumentative, this is an interesting subject...

You and I have similar backgrounds. I started out on the Moviola, etc..

My reply was strictly addressing the use of the Inspire 1 camera.

We're in agreement. If the client wants and can afford the results of the Alexa, then I too would provide them just that. But otherwise, few of the people here would ever need or be able to afford such a work flow. For them, using the Alexa would be like using an aircraft carrier to go fishing.

(And don't forget Avid DNxHD, which I think is a more efficient codec, but that's just my opinion.)
 
Baldrick, most of what you wrote makes perfect sense. But I just don't see how it applies to the Inspire 1.

The Inspire camera produces video in the H.264 codec. That is the universal standard for cameras of its type. It is highly compressed, and as a result can be written to smaller and slower flash cards needed for such cameras.

All of the discussion around transcoding the Inspire H.264 footage to the Apple ProRes codec is inspired by a single failure: the fact that FInal Cut Pro just can't handle it very well. Why is that? I don't know. I can see how it may have been a weakness for FCP when H.264 first became widespread, but I don't understand how that weakness has persisted.

It is not at all a weakness for Premiere Pro, or for any other editing software that I am aware of. So it boils down to this: the only reason anybody would ever want to transcode H.264 footage to ProRes is to satisfy the shortcomings of a single editing software system.

So when you say "an efficient conversion pathway to ProRes is essential", I think you need to add a big asterisk.

How does this apply to the Inspire? H.264 is a format common to lower end cameras, highly compressed for capture but not intended as an editing codec and is inefficient in that environment. Spending plenty of time shooting with DSLR based kits teaches that lesson real fast, irrespective of FCP or not. I'm not a fanboi for any particular post pathway. My interest is in what my deliverables are. Nobody has asked me to deliver in H.264.mov format in all the years I've been paid to shoot. That sample of clients encompasses all levels of production from simple web clients to Film & TV in Europe, USA, Japan & Australia.

Up to this point we have been assuming all the folk following this thread are professionals armed with the latest & greatest, no expense spared edit suites. The majority on this forum are hobbyists with limited budgets but with an avid (lol) interest in progressing their arial videography. When they are struggling to colourgrade & edit their footage because the computer/nle editor they have struggles with an H.264 codec it is less than helpful to default to "Get a modern computer mate" especially when transcoding into ProRes proxy or Lite will keep them humming. What about filesize you may say. I say "Meh" Hard-drives these days are real cheap.
 
HWhen they are struggling to colourgrade & edit their footage because the computer/nle editor they have struggles with an H.264 codec it is less than helpful to default to "Get a modern computer mate" especially when transcoding into ProRes proxy or Lite will keep them humming.
I didn't say, "Get a modern computer". I said, "The problem lies with your editor."

I didn't assume that everyone here is a video professional; I assumed that none was.

Whilst transcoding to ProRes may help with editing performance, it doesn't help a bit with color grading. In fact, as ProRes is a lossy codec, it could bring some noticeable harm to the image quality.

Whilst hard drives are absolutely cheap these days, maintaining a fleet of them, complete with on-site and off-site backups, is not easy.

So to be clear, what I am saying is this: the only reason for anybody but a professional to transcode to ProRes is to work around the shortcomings of a particular editing system. The editing system I use has no trouble editing H.264 footage.
 
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I didn't say, "Get a modern computer". I said, "The problem lies with your editor."

I didn't assume that everyone here is a video professional; I assumed that none was.

Whilst transcoding to ProRes may help with editing performance, it doesn't help a bit with color grading. In fact, as ProRes is a lossy codec, it could bring some noticeable harm to the image quality.

Whilst hard drives are absolutely cheap these days, maintaining a fleet of them, complete with on-site and off-site backups, is not easy.

So to be clear, what I am saying is this: the only reason for anybody but a professional to transcode to ProRes is to work around the shortcomings of a particular editing system. The editing system I use has no trouble editing H.264 footage.

you can add Avid to the list of NLE's that do not like H264. That said it is WAY more time consuming to transcode each Inspire clip to prores than it is to be patient while the system chugs through a 5 second drone shot. Once the timeline is mixed down there is no issue either, so generally we'll chop em up and then mix it down, then insert the clips into the timeline for whatever project we're doing.
Baldrick, I absolutely understand the need to provide an industry standard codec when delivering broadcast materials. That said, transcoding your inspire footage to prores before importing it into FC in my opinion doesn't really achieve much because you'll be encoding the final piece in pro-res anyways... To me, transcoding to prores is just an hour long extra step that gets you faster scrubbing and the need for more hard drives.
But to each their own, interesting debate nonetheless!
 
I didn't say, "Get a modern computer". I said, "The problem lies with your editor."

I didn't assume that everyone here is a video professional; I assumed that none was.

Whilst transcoding to ProRes may help with editing performance, it doesn't help a bit with color grading. In fact, as ProRes is a lossy codec, it could bring some noticeable harm to the image quality.

Whilst hard drives are absolutely cheap these days, maintaining a fleet of them, complete with on-site and off-site backups, is not easy.

So to be clear, what I am saying is this: the only reason for anybody but a professional to transcode to ProRes is to work around the shortcomings of a particular editing system. The editing system I use has no trouble editing H.264 footage.

InterMurph, in the morning light I'll admit my paraphrasing was a little too harsh, for that I apologise. I see colour grading as part of the editing process. Transcoding before the edit does not help with the colour grade nor does it hinder. Yes ProRes is lossy but as editing is done as a proxy process leaving the original footage untouched & creating a rendered duplicate on finalisation (unlike the layered losses in photoshop with JPEG stills) it matters not.

The reason I became involved in this discussion is that I repeatedly see posts with people complaining of jittery playback & other difficulties. Im happy that your edit system works well for you with H.264, but that is little consolation for those whose systems don't. The poor playback issue is one of two problems. Either their video card is insufficient for playback in HD or 4K at the bitrates the Inspire camera generates, or the H.264 codec is giving the processor indigestion. Using the simple DJI Transcode shareware to covert some footage to ProRes Proxy will soon answer which is the cause of the problem. If its H.264 indigestion then transcoding is a cheap solution. If its a bitrate/video card issue that will cost more moola. So its good advice in my opinion to try DJI transcode first.
 
you can add Avid to the list of NLE's that do not like H264. That said it is WAY more time consuming to transcode each Inspire clip to prores than it is to be patient while the system chugs through a 5 second drone shot. Once the timeline is mixed down there is no issue either, so generally we'll chop em up and then mix it down, then insert the clips into the timeline for whatever project we're doing.
Baldrick, I absolutely understand the need to provide an industry standard codec when delivering broadcast materials. That said, transcoding your inspire footage to prores before importing it into FC in my opinion doesn't really achieve much because you'll be encoding the final piece in pro-res anyways... To me, transcoding to prores is just an hour long extra step that gets you faster scrubbing and the need for more hard drives.
But to each their own, interesting debate nonetheless!

At some stage or another, unless your final project is in H.264 with just the Inspire footage alone - possible if its for Youtube- computer time will have to be devoted to transcoding. Transcode at the head or transcode at the tail? In my world transcoding is always the first step. Card out of camera straight to data wrangler for duplication & transcoding to raided drives on location. Media is not reformatted until duplicated & checksummed. Sony EX & XAVC cameras have in house transcode software, Red don't support their cameras the same way but a plethora of third party programs are available. For cameras using H.264 I have traditionally used a third party transcoder that can batch process so it gets done whilst Im doing other stuff. Transcoded footage speeds up the edit immensely, depending on your edit skills of course, plus the time lost transcoding first is usually gained at the final render.

That brings me to the good & bad of the DJI transcoder. Being able to transcode to four different bitrate versions of ProRes is useful as is the choice of LUTs. The results from shooting on the Inspire camera in "LOG" & transcoding with the Inspire LUT are actually pretty good. It requires both time & skill to better the Inspire LUT results and as we are talking time issues in transcoding at this point you claw back some time "lost" to transcoding.

That isn't the case with the biggest failing of the DJI Transcoder. The inability to batch process! Batch processing means you can do other tasks (like have lunch!) while your computer does its stuff. Single file transcoding is a PITA and severely impinges on the utility of the software. FIX THIS DJI...!
 
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nice info baldrick, i will try on my next video, couse even after i built a new pc, more powerful than my old one, i still have to pause the video while im editing it, i have fps drop working on 4k that makes me mad

and i just saw i can transcode 3 video at same time without even using 100% of the cpu, so it can be faster to have all the videos ready to edit than what i tought.

it would be nice that dji make batch processing on the current (or maybe new) transcoder
 

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Those Steenbecks were a wonderous thing and those that used them seemed to be in love
I was using an ArriBL about that time and others were cutting on the Steenbeck
I hope you two old farts are still checking this thread
I usually just get the shot first take (well sometimes) But never have more than some minutes of video to work on.
So the upshot is what?
Shoot D-log color mp4 and use the transcoder and supplied lut tool for best looking video, short of a grading suite?
thanks
Bruce
 
... I hope you two old farts are still checking this thread...

"Old farts"?! :confused:

I resemble that remark!

Bruce, there are many ways to skin this cat. In my mind, it would heavily depend on what the final use was. Thus far, I've not had to transcode anything. Along with that, what we do does not require a "look" per se. We're not shooting sci-fi films or period pieces.
 
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"Old farts"?! :confused:

I resemble that remark!

Bruce, there are many ways to skin this cat. In my mind, it would heavily depend on what the final use was. Thus far, I've not had to transcode anything. Along with that, what we do does not require a "look" per se. We're not shooting sci-fi films or period pieces.
Thank you
the only look I'm after is better as in "looks better that way" ie: more detail and color so if a process will make the footage "look better" to me, that's what I'll do except my clients wouldn't notice so what's the point
 
I guess I will pose it with this analogy. Let's say you have logo you want to use in print, but the file supplied to you was only 150x150 pixels and you need to put it on a banner that's 1500x1500. You can rescale it to 1500x1500 and get a file that is a hundred times bigger (in physical size and memory), but ultimately you are not able to add in data that wasn't there in the first place, so it will obviously look pixelated...
So what is it about the transcoding process that makes it better to grade? I agree prores plays nicer with most NLEs than the dumb H264's from the camera, but adding 415 mbps of bitrate for purposes of making the shot better or more flexible to grade is akin to blowing up a low res logo and expecting it to be sharp, logically speaking.

Sorry I don't mean to be a **** I just think it's a dumb marketing ploy by DJI..

Yes and no. You cant increase quality through transcoding. "Quality" is subjective, so lets call it "information" for the sake of conversation. Logs are not marketing ploys. All pro cameras have their own log: Alexa, RED, Sony, Canon, and some have a couple.

Essentially there are three types of codecs: capture codecs, edit codecs and distribution codecs. they have different purposes. A capture codec needs to write as much information as possible in a very small amount of time. The camera chip sees changes of light as a straight line (the video look). The eye, however, sees an S curve as light changes (filmic look). Applying that curve (plus the subjectivity of the curve) are processor and time intensive. Instead of processing the information during capture to create the curves, the files are recorded with a set of instructions, D-log in DJI's case, that will later be applied to the 'straight line" information of the sensor's capture.

Edit CODECS are designed to do just that, what Steve said, create a more suitable and larger container for the video file. No matter how well you shoot, the footage out of the camera will need to be converted to an edit friendly codec that isn't constantly reading several instruction files to playback. Apple Prores, in this example, has applied the LOG to every single pixel of every single frame, making the file much larger than the original capture file, while giving the video file enough "room" to scale, grade, apply effects or simply convert.

Especially in aerial cinematography, you'll be dealing with very wide dynamic range between sky and ground. Every time you change the direction of drone, that shot will likely not match the previous shot. Grading is essential, if matching shots is important (in other words, if you're getting paid to create professional footage,m they better match). Even if you shoot perfect, sooner or later that original camera file will need to be downconverted to a playback file, risking the possibility of skewing and compressing your perfect colors.

H264 isnt crappy, its an excellent playback codec, far better than any that has been written so far. Its only crappy when a camera outputs its capture information through H.264. The camera is asked to capture 24 fps at 4k resolution, then compress the instructions into a ready-to-read file AND THEN write all that to the card really fast. To facilitate this, the quality (how much information can be captured) takes a hit, making H.264 a "crappy" capture codec. Why do some camera manufactures write to H.264? Because consumers want to take the camera out of the box and start shooting to their hearts delight. Cinematographers have the responsibility of strategizing, both aesthetically and technically, translating the story from script, to the real world lights to camera information to a suitable distribution format. An amature doesnt have these burdens and therefore a log is a completely useless thing for your average consumer.
 
IIt is physically and technically possible to include the possibility of direct recording to ProRes in the app in the future with the x3?
 

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