Can't fly inspire in parks in Los Angeles

[Griggs]

If you've got a camera operator and he's handling everything related to the video feed so you can concentrate on flying conventionally, no problem.

It's not the optimal situation to do the best possible job, but the job quality might need to suffer a bit in a compromise with safety.

This is a fair point, but it will indeed kill the industry. As I stated above, the crazier the rules get, the less likely I will be to purchase one.

 

[Griggs]

I'm afraid this has been debated until the cows come home.
If you are flying exclusively FPV your situational awareness is virtually nil.

I wasn't talking about flying exclusively FPV. I was talking about glancing down at your video feed. Within the last year I purchased some goggles and completely agree with that. You're situational awareness is really poor, especially when you first start out. But if you have a video monitor at eye level to glance at. It seems like an increased level of awareness if you ask me.

 

[damoncooper]

Flying any kind of drone or remote-control aircraft is prohibited in all LA city parks.

 

[Harryscopic]

Youtube is full of videos from drone operators flying with zero concern of the rules and safety. They treat this as just another toy and who needs any learnin to play with a toy. Sadly, it is there actions that doom the rest of us.

I frequent a number of other web forums and periodically see posts related to drone use. In many cases the poster is showing of the cool video they got and all too often that cool video was done by either breaking existing rules/laws or violating common sense safety concerns. When I politely challenge there methods it's not uncommon for them to get pissy about it and for others to chime in likewise.

People just don't think things through...

OTH, the idea that looking at a tablet is necessarily bad isn't true either. A pilot of an actual airplane is taught to perform a sweep of the instruments and looking out the cockpit windows so taking there eyes off the road ahead isn't a problem it's part of the solution. The challenge with out small drones is that they're small and at a distance hard to see. Maintaining proper situational awareness requires a disciplined approach, but mandating that discipline isn't easy when there little legal framework mandating the training to achieve it.

So, the easy solution is to ban there use which this rule effectively does.


Brian

So true.

 

[Dobmatt]

The police shutdown flying all drones with tablet interfaces on Saturday. You can't even fly drones with tablet interfaces in model airplane fields. This is going to kill drone industry

Phenomenal popularity of RC controlled drones is reaching the point of saturation. Period. With swarms of Phantoms and inspires above our heads in public parks and residential areas chances for things going wrong increases rapidly. It is obvious that such activities must be tamed by some regulations, limitations and banned air spaces to avoid accidents. Piloting any flying apparatus, remotely or not, is a serious issue. I wouldn't worry much about drone industry health: this Christmas they've made a fortune...

 

[Griggs]

The phenomenal popularity of RC controlled drones is reaching the point of saturation. Period. With swarms of Phantoms and inspires above our heads in public parks and residential areas chances for things going wrong increases rapidly. It is obvious that such activities must be tamed by some regulations, limitations and banned air spaces to avoid accidents. Piloting any flying apparatus, remotely or not, is a serious issue. I wouldn't worry much about drone industry health: this Christmas they've made a fortune...

I haven't seen many Phantoms out in the wild and I've seen no Inspires. Maybe it's different where you live but I'd hardly call it a swarm.

As far as the drone industry, the vast majority of those gifts under the Christmas tree this year were single operators machines with FPV capabilities. If those were all rendered illegal, the industry would not continue to exist for Christmas 2016.

 

[MacDyver]

Here in America the FAA prohibits any local or state entity from making any rules concerning airspace.
If you are a hobbyist, flying in Class G airspace at 400 ft. AGL or below, away from people, critical infrastructure or stadiums no local or state entity has the authority to interfere with you.
Now that won't mean they wouldn't. Much like recording police is legal but they never seemed to care.

 

[lake_flyer]

OTH, the idea that looking at a tablet is necessarily bad isn't true either. A pilot of an actual airplane is taught to perform a sweep of the instruments and looking out the cockpit windows so taking there eyes off the road ahead isn't a problem it's part of the solution. The challenge with out small drones is that they're small and at a distance hard to see. Maintaining proper situational awareness requires a disciplined approach, but mandating that discipline isn't easy when there little legal framework mandating the training to achieve it.

Very true. For commercial operators, quite soon, there will come rules (and training/certification) to fly purely on instruments. But for professional licensed pilots only. From then on the rules will extend gradually to autonomous flying and even overland flying, using autonomy or instruments (FPV screen), basically, what the airforce is doing for years already. Things will get very interesting in the near future.

If I had to do this just for a hobby I would seriously worry about all the coming rules for hobbyists in the world.

 

[SkipTV]

Get Your 333, Join the AMA (you'll get Liability Insurance with a membership) , Join the National Press Photographers Association (you'll get a press badge), Register your Drone with the FAA. Take Your Drivers License and NAAP membership card and go to your local police station and register as (press, media, etc) if they don't handle that find out what city department does. Make sure you are flying outside of the 5 mile airport area. Then the next time you fly in a park. Professionally notify the Police Officer and show the Police Officer all your documentation. Tell him you are a Freelance Stringer that provides video and pictures to various news organizations, blogs, etc (it doesn't matter if its your own blog, or YouTube Page). Tell him 'professionally' and be courteous that FAA controls airspace and supersedes local ordinances and that as a press photographer you are exercising your constitutional right.
But make absolutely sure you are obeying all FAA rules, staying below 400 feet, not flying over people. More than likely he will not right you up, or kick you out, if he does, take it to court, it will get tossed out. Im a professional News Photographer, I have a 333, Liability Insurance, Press Pass from cities I work in, and each time I have been stopped I presented paper work and information to the police officer and I was allowed to continue with my flight.

 

[Moose]

I think that is pretty ridiculous. That would be equivalent to glancing away from the quad momentarily for any reason. Watch your step, look for other aircraft, someone is walking up behind you, the police are talking to me. Whops, just glanced away, take me to jail.

That's certainly not the spirit of the rule. If your maintaining visual line sight and you look at your fpv monitor to frame a photo or video but continue to watch the aircraft as well. I can't image what the problem would be.

One could certainly argue no goggles with this, but with a monitor that you can glance back and fourth..

In Europe FPV goggles are illegal combined for use in a Drone.** Unless you are using Moverio FPV glasses, where you can see the bird with your eye along with the projected image.
As far as the "Tablet+Drone" #ordinance# I'm not seeing this last. As a retired State Trooper + having a Private Pilots License, I am classified as an Expert in vehicle operations. And if you recall your "HS Drivers Ed class" driving while Scanning all your mirrors while driving, vehicle Gauges, in a vehicle + aircraft, it's not much different IMO if you being safe & responsible easing the tabletwith your Drone...
I'm glad Texas isn't that ****!

 

[highground]

The police shutdown flying all drones with tablet interfaces on Saturday. You can't even fly drones with tablet interfaces in model airplane fields. This is going to kill drone industry

Phoenix is about the same except they have designated 8 city parks where you can fly with restrictions. I was about to fly in a large desert park when a park ranger informed me of the new rules.

Phoenix Online Codes

 

[MacDyver]

Phoenix is about the same except they have designated 8 city parks where you can fly with restrictions. I was about to fly in a large desert park when a park ranger informed me of the new rules.

Phoenix Online Codes

The FAA strictly forbids any local or state agencies from making ANY rules regulations concerning sUAS flights!!!!!
Local and State laws cannot supersede Federal regulations

 

[Scotflieger]

The FAA strictly forbids any local or state agencies from making ANY rules regulations concerning sUAS flights!!!!!
Local and State laws cannot supersede Federal regulations

They may not be able to ban flights above but they I assume, as land owners, they can say whether your can takeoff and land on their property.

 

[MacDyver]

They may not be able to ban flights above but they I assume, as land owners, they can say whether your can takeoff and land on their property.

Don't make that assumption it is publicly owned land.

 

[brad90631]

The FAA strictly forbids any local or state agencies from making ANY rules regulations concerning sUAS flights!!!!!
Local and State laws cannot supersede Federal regulations

but the cities and state can control where you take off and land.

 

[MacDyver]

but the cities and state can control where you take off and land.

Based on what regulations?

 

[Joola]

Don't make that assumption it is publicly owned land.

Any local jurisdiction can regulate where you can take off and land on public property. FAA has jurisdiction over where you fly.

Based on what regulations?

There are none saying they can't or they can...FAA has no jurisdiction over what happens on the ground. Do us all a favor and cite your own regulations as well. It only helps to educate fellow forum members.

 

[MacDyver]

Any local jurisdiction can regulate where you can take off and land on public property. FAA has jurisdiction of where you fly.

Any local jurisdiction can regulate where you can take off and land on public property. FAA has jurisdiction over where you fly.

Nitpicking a rule won't make it so, The FAA clearly states in plain language that local and state authorities cannot make rules concerning sUAS flights, and thereby cannot circumvent the intent. Also the original poster said operations using iPads were being singled out a very clear violation of FAA policy

 

[Joola]

Nitpicking a rule won't make it so, The FAA clearly states in plain language that local and state authorities cannot make rules concerning sUAS flights, and thereby cannot circumvent the intent. Also the original poster said operations using iPads were being singled out a very clear violation of FAA policy

It's not nitpicking. It would be a land use regulation and thus not subject to FAA jurisdiction. Please stop spreading misinformation and read this document focusing specifically on the following quote:

1. Laws traditionally related to state and local police power – including land use, zoning, privacy, trespass, and law enforcement operations – generally are not subject to federal regulation.

http://www.faa.gov/uas/regulations_policies/media/UAS_Fact_Sheet_Final.pdf

If that isn't clear enough, you can read this lawyers interpretation of all relevant drone laws he is in agreement with me and others on this.
Drone Law Journal

 

[MacDyver]

It's not nitpicking. It would be a land use regulation and thus not subject to FAA jurisdiction. Please stop spreading misinformation and read this document focusing specifically on the following quote:

1. Laws traditionally related to state and local police power – including land use, zoning, privacy, trespass, and law enforcement operations – generally are not subject to federal regulation.

http://www.faa.gov/uas/regulations_policies/media/UAS_Fact_Sheet_Final.pdf

If that isn't clear enough, you can read this lawyers interpretation of all relevant drone laws he is in agreement with me and others on this.
Drone Law Journal

I think we'll simply agree to disagree for now, time will shake this all out. As for your links,
Because Federal registration is the exclusive means for registering UAS for purposes of operating an aircraft in navigable airspace, no state or local government may impose an additional registration requirement on the operation of UAS in navigable airspace without first obtaining FAA approval.

Substantial air safety issues are raised when state or local governments attempt to regulate the operation or flight of aircraft. If one or two municipalities enacted ordinances regulating UAS in the navigable airspace and a significant number of municipalities followed suit, fractionalized control of the navigable airspace could result. In turn, this ‘patchwork quilt’ of differing restrictions could severely limit the flexibility of FAA in controlling the airspace and flight patterns, and ensuring safety and an efficient air traffic flow
.
State and local drone law.
State and local governments may, however, regulate two things related to flight:

• They may regulate their own agencies' drone flight operations; and
• They may regulate the locations on the ground from which drones may be launched, landed or operated.

That's it. State and local governments cannot regulate drones in any other manner. They can of course use laws of general applicability (such as voyeurism, reckless endangerment, nuisance, etc.) to prohibit certain acts, which would apply to a drone pilot, if a drone happened to be the objectused to perform the prohibited act. They could also pass unnecessary and duplicative criminal statutes specific to drones, but they'd be essentially meaningless since existing criminal statutes would already cover those crimes regardless of whether they were committed with a drone.
Update (March 9, 2015): In Perez v. Mortgage Bankers Association (March 9 2015), the Supreme Court held that agency interpretations of statutes and regulations are not legislative rules, and accordingly do not require agencies to follow the APA's notice and comment procedures. The Court further held that as non-legislative rules, agency interpretations do not have the force and effect of law, and only indicate to the public what an agency perceives the law to be.

I appreciate you supplying the links.