USA Class B airspace SFC-100 Beyond 5SM..

[Eliphion]

I believe this question goes in this particular forum..

I live outside Charlotte, NC. Charlotte's Class B airspace goes out 7NM, SFC-100. The way I am reading the rules is if I fly recreationally I dont have't to notify the tower unless Im within 5SM of the airfield. But flying within 7NM (or 8SM) of the airfield, Im in Class B SFC-100.

I think the correct thing to do even as a recreational flyer would be to notify the tower if Im outside 5SM but within 8SM.

What do you all believe?

 

[Jason1234]

I believe this question goes in this particular forum..

I live outside Charlotte, NC. Charlotte's Class B airspace goes out 7NM, SFC-100. The way I am reading the rules is if I fly recreationally I dont have't to notify the tower unless Im within 5SM of the airfield. But flying within 7NM (or 8SM) of the airfield, Im in Class B SFC-100.

I think the correct thing to do even as a recreational flyer would be to notify the tower if Im outside 5SM but within 8SM.

What do you all believe?

This is what I have been complaining about in another thread. Hobbyist restrictions are less than licensed pilots flying beyond 5 miles. This also applies to greater than 4 miles around lots of class D airports where there are E extensions. In fact today, until airspace authorizations start coming back, there are places Part 107 pilots can't fly that recreational pilots can.

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[DesertWindAero]

I'd play it safe and notify them if you are within 8 SM.

Here is a good resource.

 

[CraigK]

I'd play it safe and notify them if you are within 8 SM.

Here is a good resource.

This source agrees with the others I have found. I believe it states that you need to be a member of a CBO, like the AMA , and be flying under their guidelines and programming, or you need a part 107 license and fly under those rules. There is no more going out on your own and just winging it as far as I can tell.

 

[Jason1234]

This source agrees with the others I have found. I believe it states that you need to be a member of a CBO like the AMA and be flying under their guidelines and programming or you need a part 107 license and fly under those rules. There is no more going out on your own and just winging it as far as I can tell.

"within the programming of a nationwide community-based organization" is legal mumbo jumbo. Why don't they just say that you have to be a member, if that is, in fact, what it means. Basically you can pay the extortion fee and fly in a more free manner (in some ways) than a licensed type rated pilot. Stupid. Doesn't make the NAS safer. Period.

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[CraigK]

"within the programming of a nationwide community-based organization" is legal mumbo jumbo. Why don't they just say that you have to be a member, if that is, in fact, what it means. Basically you can pay the extortion fee and fly in a more free manner (in some ways) than a licensed type rated pilot. Stupid. Doesn't make the NAS safer. Period.

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You can call it mumbo jumbo but it seems to be the law. It is not just a matter of paying to join, but flying under the organization's safety guidelines and programming too. You won't know if you can fly in a more free manner until you are familiar with the organization's safety guidelines and "programming." What ever that means. They all mIght prohibit flying within X miles of controlled airspace except under certain specific circumstances. I don't know myself. If you're going to do so one needs to join, and abide by the CBO's rules, or have a 107 license and fly under those guidelines. If someone has a different interpretation of the 107 and 101 I'd love to hear it. I'd like to just go out the door and wing it recreationally too but I think that is no longer legal.

Answering the OP. I think you need to check with the guidelines of the CBO organization you belong to, or fly under part 107. If you are not a member of a CBO, you are flying under 107 by default, whether you realize it or not.

 

[Jason1234]

"programming." What ever that means.

That's my point. Mumbo jumbo. Open to interpretation. It doesn't say specifically you need to be a member. Follow the guidelines? Yes. That's clear.

Still, the guidelines and regulations are less restrictive in many ways compared to a licensed part 107 pilot. Dumb.

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[licensed pilot]

All this same meandering was going on on this site a year ago, with plenty of whining about 333 rules. I am no fan of the FAA but they have made significant progress on this topic. Regulations take time. I have no doubt they will get a lasso around hobby fliers in due time. In the mean time, pick an operation; hobby ot commercial and enjoy yourself.

 

[Kilinahe Media]

This is what I have been complaining about in another thread. Hobbyist restrictions are less than licensed pilots flying beyond 5 miles. This also applies to greater than 4 miles around lots of class D airports where there are E extensions. In fact today, until airspace authorizations start coming back, there are places Part 107 pilots can't fly that recreational pilots can.

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What kind of class e extensions? The magenta gradient ones? The cyan gradient ones? Class G airspace is below those so Part 107 pilots are able to fly.

 

[Jason1234]

What kind of class e extensions? The magenta gradient ones? The cyan gradient ones? Class G airspace is below those so Part 107 pilots are able to fly.

No, Class E to the surface. Magenta dashed lines.

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[Kilinahe Media]

Got it!

 

[Jason1234]

All this same meandering was going on on this site a year ago, with plenty of whining about 333 rules.... Regulations take time. I have no doubt they will get a lasso around hobby fliers in due time. In the mean time, pick an operation; hobby ot commercial and enjoy yourself.

That's the attitude that breeds inept regulators and results in bad legislation and rules. We should be "whining." It takes passionate, vocal people to reject burdensome, overbearing, and ineffective regulation. Complacency results in the status quo perpetuated. Without an affected community standing up and telling them what they got wrong, they will drag their feet. Think about how the FAA has worked so far on this matter. They are patting themselves on the back for pushing out Part 107, but Congress mandated that they integrate UAS into the national airspace in 2012, and they missed the deadline last year. When they finally obey the law and piecemeal out a "solution," it continues the foot dragging and penalizes their own licensees with more restrictions than unlicensed hobbyists in some ways. On top of that, they didn't have a system in place on August 29th when the regulation became effective to grant airspace authorizations in a timely manner.

Imagine if Apple put out the iPhone 7 but didn't mention that you can't sent text messages for the first 34 days. You'd probably have some people whining.

 

[licensed pilot]

That's the attitude that breeds inept regulators and results in bad legislation and rules. We should be "whining." It takes passionate, vocal people to reject burdensome, overbearing, and ineffective regulation. Complacency results in the status quo perpetuated. Without an affected community standing up and telling them what they got wrong, they will drag their feet. Think about how the FAA has worked so far on this matter. They are patting themselves on the back for pushing out Part 107, but Congress mandated that they integrate UAS into the national airspace in 2012, and they missed the deadline last year. When they finally obey the law and piecemeal out a "solution," it continues the foot dragging and penalizes their own licensees with more restrictions than unlicensed hobbyists in some ways. On top of that, they didn't have a system in place on August 29th when the regulation became effective to grant airspace authorizations in a timely manner.

Imagine if Apple put out the iPhone 7 but didn't mention that you can't sent text messages for the first 34 days. You'd probably have some people whining.

By all means; drone on...

 

[Steve@AerialImagesPro]

I'm all about following rules and guidelines but the rules and guidelines ARE very confusing. As a licensed pro, I'm obligated to understand. Recreationally it's silly to expect people to understand.

In your case, kudos for doing your due diligence! I think if you're outside the 5 miles and stay under 400 ft, you should be fine recreationally.

The hard part is where you measure that 5 miles from. CLT itself is 3 miles from top to bottom. I live in charlotte so am very familiar with the area.

 

[kennedye]

The hard part is where you measure that 5 miles from.

My understanding is that it's 5 miles from whatever the FAA considers the centerpoint of the airport?

The new rules are a little confusing. I actually spoke to a couple of controllers at Paine Field this morning (they were having a seminar on TRACON and some general changes around the area) and they said they're not 100% sure how they're supposed to proceed yet, but for the moment to just contact the tower if there's any question. My airport, not yours, not official FAA policy, etc. etc.

There is supposed to be a sort of blanket airspace map coming out soon that will hopefully allow for default allowances similar to a 333 COA.

 

[Steve@AerialImagesPro]

Yes, you're correct, but if you look at FAA sectional it shows one center point, than the dji geofenced center point is almost a mile different.

 

[Eliphion]

I used to forecast the weather for the Air Force, then the NWS, then I contracted in the Middle East. I was in aviation weather forecasting for 10 years. We forecasted within a 5 mile radius around the airfield and that was measured from the center point of the runway.

Now most civilian runways have more than 1... so I would venture an educated guess it would be from the center of the airport property itself. That's how Im interpreting it.

Appreciate the responses everyone! Good discussion here.

 

[Deleted member 31096]

The center of an airport is measured using an Airport Reference Point. The airport reference point (ARP) geographically locates the airport horizontally. The ARP is normally not monumented or physically marked on the ground. The computation of this point uses only runway length. How an ARP is calculated is covered in the FAA's Advisory Circular AC 150/5300-13, Appendix 3.

You can locate the ARP for any airport by looking in the Airport/Facility Directory, now referred to as a Digital Chart Supplement - found on the FAA website for free.
Digital - Chart Supplement (d-CS)

Hope this helps!

 

[Eliphion]

Thanks Dan! That helps.

 

[Dave Armbrust]

For recreational flyers the B4UFLY app will show you if you are within 5 SM of any airport. The larger problem is there are airports/heliports everywhere and many you will not be able to contact. If you do not or can not contact them you can not fly.

Keep in mind that part 101 (recreational flyers) was written by congress to protect model airplane flying fields NOT drones who want to fly with little or no notice to airports.

A recreational drone flyer has much more in common with Part 107 than Part 101. The frustration we are seeing with recreational drone flyers is that they are trying to put a round plug in a square hole and they are finding it does not fit very well.