Welcome to InspirePilots.com

Join the leading DJI Inspire community for free!

Comparison x5 vs x5r with at least one DNG frame?

Discussion in 'Zenmuse X5R' started by Untold_Vision, Jun 1, 2016.

  1. Untold_Vision

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2016
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi, Can anybody please point me to a place where I can see a side by side comparison of the x5r vs x5 with at least one DNG file to download?
    Thanks
     
  2. ge0se

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2015
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    10
    They're identical sensors, difference is X5 cannot record RAW video sequences, stills only.
     
  3. The Editor

    The Editor Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2013
    Messages:
    6,734
    Likes Received:
    3,891
    As above, there is absolutely no difference between the two cameras for stills capture.
     
  4. Untold_Vision

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2016
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi, I'm talking about a short video sequence side by side comparison (Using D-log), I think it can be done having a SSD and a memory card at the same time in the 5XR ( I had seem a couple of comparison videos online but not D-log) but what I really one to have is at least one DNG frame from the that RAW sequence.

    From what I had seem I think the video Quality are really comparable only difference is RAW gives a bit more room for Color Correction. But is very hard to judge without having the files in hand.
     
    #4 Untold_Vision, Jun 2, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2016
  5. Cactuswest

    Joined:
    May 15, 2016
    Messages:
    110
    Likes Received:
    29
    Location:
    Phoenix, Arizona
    D-log gives you a very flat and hazy picture right out of the camera. Unfortunately, Cinelilght applies a LUT when exporting to a DNG sequence. You can remove the LUT after importing into Resolve to see the D-log file and color it.
    However, the comparison with a non raw frame will not tell you much. Regardless, shooting raw or h264 will give you very good quality if you know what you are doing. Since the h264 is processed in camera, you have to learn its limitation.
    Compared to a few years ago, the X5 is an unbelievable camera which produced footage seen in film and commercial.
    The raw workflow allows you to use more of the sensor dynamic range and color correct the footage to intercut with other camera like a Red Weapon. It gives enormous flexibility for the pros. But it comes a price when you buy it and then how you process it. You need a fairly beefy computer, lots of storage and some color correcting skills. You need to factor this into the equation.
    We bought a Inspire 1 RAW because we want access to commercial and closed sets. But for all the other work, the h264 version will be more than adequate. An exception might be in low light when you have the ability to push the raw footage without much noise increase.
     
  6. Burlingtonfilms

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2015
    Messages:
    126
    Likes Received:
    37
    If someone is up for it, I would love to see a side by side comparison of the RAW footage vs the Proxy footage on the X5R. The X5R Proxy footage is basically the same quality as the X5 correct?
     
  7. ianwood

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2014
    Messages:
    2,524
    Likes Received:
    193
    Location:
    Lost Angeles
    Cinelight applies what LUT? Is this only to D-LOG?

    If you record in None does Cinelight apply anything?

    I really want Cinelight to do as little as possible.
     
  8. xzoticskillz

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2013
    Messages:
    79
    Likes Received:
    108

    Cactuswest what are you talking about? Cinelight does not export with the LUT applied, where are you getting that info? When you select "None" under profile and export Cinema DNG RAW there's no LUT applied, its all just RAW. If you are exporting to Prores however then thats a different story, but why would you even want to export anything but DNG raw if you have the X5R?! There's no point in using D-log when you are shooting raw, only with h.264.
     
  9. Cactuswest

    Joined:
    May 15, 2016
    Messages:
    110
    Likes Received:
    29
    Location:
    Phoenix, Arizona
    I am with you.
    In Cinelight, go to the calibration tab on the right side of the app. Click on the DNG icon and in the Color Space dropdown choose dLog. You should see your footage totally decontrasted and hazy as you would any raw sequence.
    After exporting out of Cinelight and importing into Resolve the sequences look the same as before applying the dLog setting in Cinelight.
    In Resolve you can remove it but it is an extra step that does not need to be. The entire purpose of raw is the ability to apply LUTs and color match other cameras.
    Cinelight should give us the option to export without anything applied to the footage.
    This being said, whatever Cinelight applies is only metadata which is not burned into the sequence.
     
  10. Cactuswest

    Joined:
    May 15, 2016
    Messages:
    110
    Likes Received:
    29
    Location:
    Phoenix, Arizona
    I "get" that info when importing into Resolve as DNG sequence NOT ProRes. Where did you see me mention ProRes?
    See my post #9
     
  11. ianwood

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2014
    Messages:
    2,524
    Likes Received:
    193
    Location:
    Lost Angeles
    Not for me it isn't!
     
  12. Cactuswest

    Joined:
    May 15, 2016
    Messages:
    110
    Likes Received:
    29
    Location:
    Phoenix, Arizona
    Explain
     
  13. xzoticskillz

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2013
    Messages:
    79
    Likes Received:
    108
    You can't export full cinema DNG raw with color profiles applied (the calibration tab will be greyed out on the export tab), only when you export in other formats like ProRes is this possible .....so I'm confused on why you keep mentioning you are exporting with D-log color profiles embedded. Also to reiterate my point, it doesn't make sense to use D-log with raw, D-log is meant for compressed codecs and does nothing to increase dynamic range when working with raw. The ideal workflow for highest quality upon export is to NOT apply any calibrations in Cinelight.
     
    damoncooper likes this.
  14. Cactuswest

    Joined:
    May 15, 2016
    Messages:
    110
    Likes Received:
    29
    Location:
    Phoenix, Arizona
    Much better response without the condescending tone and the attitude, thank you!. This is a community where we are here to learn and pay forward what we learn.
    Back to the question at hand.
    I understand how raw works. I have a Red Raven in the pipeline and I have spent a lot of time on the RedUser forums soaking up as much knowledge as possible. I also shoot a lot of raw stills
    DJI does not explain very well if at all (or at least I have not been able to find good intel) what happened to the footage at acquisition and how it processes it with its utility is unknown. DJI is a fairly new comer at the "pro" level. There are a lot of terms thrown out by manufacturers that don't necessarily means the same to all. So I am pushing buttons to see what happens when I do. I am investigating the workflow so when my FAA certification comes in I will be able to deliver the best product because I understand how it works.
    In the real world, raw and Log are different format. Raw is not a video file until it is processed. There is is no white balance, iso, gamma, contrast, color, sharpening and so on applied to a raw file at the time of acquisition. Log is video where everything is applied to it then a gamma curve (Log) is applied to produce a flat file to retain as much DR as possible.
    Raw is not necessarily uncompressed. Red camera shooters can choose between 3:1 to 18:1 compression at the time of acquisition.

    After my first test flight, the raw files did not come in as flat as I expected it. They where even dark when imported into Resolve. So I started to investigate. When you say that it does not make sense to apply D-log to raw footage. What does DJI consider a D-log curve and and to what extent? It is a proprietary process. You can apply a RedGamma curve to Red files. That's what I am trying to find out.
     
  15. apsussex

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2015
    Messages:
    189
    Likes Received:
    111
    Location:
    Sussex, England
    I am awaiting my X5r to try but I would imagine the different settings for D-Log, None, Cine are purely for your standard Mp4/mov file that gets saved as well, obviously having absolutely no affect at all to the RAW files, although I do wonder going forward if DJI will bring in options for RAW with different compressions, or even the ability to shoot a very high bitrate onto an SSD.
     
    Cactuswest likes this.
  16. damoncooper

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2014
    Messages:
    3,459
    Likes Received:
    1,633
    Location:
    Boston, MA
  17. apsussex

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2015
    Messages:
    189
    Likes Received:
    111
    Location:
    Sussex, England
    My X5r turned up yesterday so used it on a shoot today. x5r RAW image vs D-LOG, D-LOG exported screenshot with VLC into PNG... ISO 100, F5.6, 1/50, and an ND8 (need to change this as there is a slight cast, although in RAW its easily fixed). The grass was an eye opener! I love being able to pull out a still as RAW too. About a minute less flight time, no big deal, worth it for such a big increase in quality. God I wish I had this when I filmed on the White Cliffs of Dover the other week.

    Dropbox - x5r
     
    damoncooper likes this.
  18. erikgraham

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2014
    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    18
    Location:
    New York and Philadelphia
    I wish this thread were still alive. It was interesting but seems unresolved. Does d log with raw make sense? What is the best workflow to get into Resolve?