Disabling the No Fly Zone protection

Ibflyen · Aug 22, 2015

lake_flyer said:
In some special cases we can get an exemption to go higher and further. And we will get a possibility to certify for IFR in the near future, which will allow us to fly as far as the control link will provide safely. Don't forget, the current limits are based on VFR VLOS. Also autonomous flight controls will be soon possible be certified, so we can fly waypoints for professional and commercial operations. The professional possibilities will become endless. We're only at the very beginning, learning how to deal with it in the aerospace world.

My view on the future?
IFR will not become legal for hobbyists I'm afraid. So you will be stuck with your VLOS limits, if you want to keep it legal.

I think the market for +1000gram multirotors for recreational use will go down rapidly once the rules are finally clear in the world. There will be a huge soar in development and sales of nano drones with follow me possibility, with a control range of max 30m and autoland on the smartphone.

Thanks to all the "I'm free, so I don't give a f@!# and I want to go as high and far as I want" kind of guys, the true hobbyists will suffer in the end. The consumer however, gains a new gadget to take dronies with.

It's really to bad that I'm going to have to show the FAA I'm willing to charge someone for something I would gladly do for free just so I can get my certification so I can then fly unrestricted with my i1

That is, once I pay off the FAA!
I wonder how many other certified hobbyists there will be!

lake_flyer · Aug 22, 2015

Ibflyen said:
I wonder how many other certified hobbyists there will be!

Like I once said: we are all 'Berliners'. Certified or not.

But so glad you got the point

tweaker · Aug 23, 2015

Editor
Can you shed any more light on the unlocking of NFZ for cert pilots?

Is this after you have been talking to them?

What do DJI require to unlock NFZ for you etc etc

Many thanks

lake_flyer · Aug 23, 2015

tweaker said:
Editor
Can you shed any more light on the unlocking of NFZ for cert pilots?

Is this after you have been talking to them?

What do DJI require to unlock NFZ for you etc etc

Many thanks

https://www.heliguy.com/pg/Opportunities/override-no-fly-zone

You must provide a written statementthat you are legally allowed to fly in the intended area.
The ID of the person signing the document must be provided.
The disclaimer form must be signed.
The NDA(Non-Disclosure Agreement) must be signed.
You must provide the serial number of the aircraft.
Name and address of the area to be unlocked.
Intended date and time of flight.

The Editor · Aug 23, 2015

What he said ^^^^^

(thanks lake_flyer you beat me to it)

It should also be noted

This is a temporary solution (until the web based service is launched in September)
It was only launched a few days ago
I personally have not had an opportunity to use it (due to the second point above)
It may/should be modified to require a long and lat rather than 'an address' which is not accurate positional information in respect of air navigation.

andreweio1 · Aug 23, 2015

The Editor said:
This thread is moot in any case since the NFZ's can already be unlocked by request temporarily by DJI for certified UAV pilots.
A more permanent solution will be released in September.

@The Editor

You mention that you can get NFZ's removed by contacting DJI. We have both sub 7 and 20kg CAA PFAW's can you please advise on the procedure to get NFZ lifted with DJI for I1

Many thanks

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

The Editor · Aug 23, 2015

andreweio1 said:
@The Editor

You mention that you can get NFZ's removed by contacting DJI. We have both sub 7 and 20kg CAA PFAW's can you please advise on the procedure to get NFZ lifted with DJI for I1

Many thanks

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Please see my post above and link provided by lake_flyer.
As stayed above, this is a temporary service only whilst a more permanent solution is launched.
The request must be submitted via the online forms through the link above and the restrictions are only lifted temporarily (enough to get the job done!)
Please note - you will need to supply all the relevant documents to Heliguy (including a copy of your current PFAW from the CAA) as well as identification (Passport/Drivers Licence) and sign the NDA and disclaimer.
Although it states an address where the flight/s will take place must be supplied, for accuracy I would also quote Long and Lat together with operational ceiling.

Hope that helps.

ZenOhSix · Aug 23, 2015

I presented the idea to DJI about using their support service and programming within the DJI Application to disable a specific coordinate location for the NFZ. I laid out a pretty straight forward method, very similar to what 'The Editor' and what "Lake_Flyer" said above. This was on RCGroups - and it wasn't received very favorably by the DJI guys.

They didn't even bother to really read it, and it caused quite a stir, going to PM's. They even threatened to block me for it. Here is the thread an what I wrote:

RCG Post made on March 14, 2015 - Click here

You can read their negative responses to my post, but here was the quote:

ZenOhSix on March 14, 2015

Originally Posted by Tahoe Ed
How would you as a company regulate that? It would be an administrative nightmare. You would have to place time restricted waivers it just would not work in my opinion. While I think that there are operators that have a legitimate exemption to operate within restricted airspace, there are other options.

Click to expand...

I don't think this would be that difficult. DJI could begin by mapping a simple workflow system, and then leveraging the existing support system that is in place.

As you mentioned before, DJI is trying to set a corporate based example for responsibilities for No Fly Zones, without hardened rules in place via Federal / State / Local laws. This should be commended, but should be implemented with some level of flexibility that allows for a proper workflow that doesn't potentially hamper corporate sales.

DJI could still accomplish their goals while implementing a few workflow and software changes. Something iike the following could be expanded upon (since this is just off the top of my mind - get a real Business Analyst to analyze for the software team):

- Utilize the existing 24/7 support system, or some other nominal lead time review period.
- Implement a nominal charge fee (covering initial software investment and allowing for reoccurring revenue). Something like a $10.00 processing fee.
- Have a downloadable template that the local ATC or "authoritative" entry can populate and sign for approval. This would include information such as physical location (lat/long), approved dates, time, specific Serial Number for the requested Inspire 1, etc. Ultimately, releasing DJI of responsibility for the temporarily lifted restriction.
- Enhance the software so a specific key can be input in one of the menu's (ie map settings or something), allowing the No Fly Zone for a specific GPS location to be nullified. This should be implemented and bound for a specific Inspire 1, time period, and lat/long (etc. - DJI can work from this basis).

You get the point. The ROI for this feature development would be easy to calculate. DJI would benefit from a reoccurring revenue model, while still offering an innovative solution to this challenge.

Mike

The kicker here for me, was that I even provided them the best form of revenue with handling the NFZ topic: RECURRING REVENUE through the means of charging for the temporary location based NFZ removal! It was quite frustrating to deal with the DJI guys on that topic. At a very minimum, they should have responded with a "Thank you for your feedback and ideas... blah blah blah ... we have submitted it to DJI for review."

If they would have said that, it would have killed any NFZ argument, as they could simply be a pass through, indicating they have passed along the idea. There is nothing more to argue about at that point, as it is left up to "Corporate". Nope - instead they shot the idea down and threatened to block me if I spoke to them any further on that topic.

I was quite dumbfounded and seriously contemplated selling the Inspire 1 and going to a different platform.

-Mike

The Editor · Aug 23, 2015

ZenOhSix said:
I presented the idea to DJI about using their support service and programming within the DJI Application to disable a specific coordinate location for the NFZ. I laid out a pretty straight forward method, very similar to what 'The Editor' and what "Lake_Flyer" said above. This was on RCGroups - and it wasn't received very favorably by the DJI guys.

They didn't even bother to really read it, and it caused quite a stir, going to PM's. They even threatened to block me for it. Here is the thread an what I wrote:

RCG Post made on March 14, 2015 - Click here

You can read their negative responses to my post, but here was the quote:

The kicker here for me, was that I even provided them the best form of revenue with handling the NFZ topic: RECURRING REVENUE through the means of charging for the temporary location based NFZ removal! It was quite frustrating to deal with the DJI guys on that topic. At a very minimum, they should have responded with a "Thank you for your feedback and ideas... blah blah blah ... we have submitted it to DJI for review."

If they would have said that, it would have killed any NFZ argument, as they could simply be a pass through, indicating they have passed along the idea. There is nothing more to argue about at that point, as it is left up to "Corporate". Nope - instead they shot the idea down and threatened to block me if I spoke to them any further on that topic.

I was quite dumbfounded and seriously contemplated selling the Inspire 1 and going to a different platform.

-Mike

Sorry you had a throw back on the idea - As you can now see, it has been implemented (early days) with a permanent solution coming shortly (September).

I spoke to the R&D guys about it and it was well received.
We now have a solution (of sorts) with better options to come.

ZenOhSix · Aug 23, 2015

The Editor said:
Sorry you had a throw back on the idea - As you can now see, it has been implemented (early days) with a permanent solution coming shortly (September).

I spoke to the R&D guys about it and it was well received.
We now have a solution (of sorts) with better options to come.

Great news! Ultimately, this is what is needed - as nothing is ever (or should be) absolute. It was just personally disappointing that my attempts to positively contribute, via solving a real problem, was met with such negativity from the few public facing DJI employee's.

I am just glad to see a solution put in place for approved pilots.

-Mike

damoncooper · Aug 23, 2015

Fixed in 1.4. Mandatory upgrade.

(To the guy who posted then deleted the aluminum foil over GPS trick)

Sad to see this thread beginning to repeat itself, just like Facebook groups. Attention span = 31 seconds

The Editor · Aug 23, 2015

damoncooper said:
Fixed in 1.4. Mandatory upgrade.

(To the guy who posted then deleted the aluminum foil over GPS trick)

Sad to see this thread beginning to repeat itself, just like Facebook.

Shhhhhhh......you're not supposed to tell people about 1.4!

damoncooper · Aug 23, 2015

The Editor said:
Shhhhhhh......you're not supposed to tell people about 1.4!

I helped raise this bug as an issue and its just that: a bug. And it's fixed. That's all I'll confirm about 1.4

locklin · Aug 23, 2015

damoncooper said:
I helped raise this bug as an issue and its just that: a bug. And it's fixed. That's all I'll confirm about 1.4

So, if I'm indoors and can't pick up satellites I'm grounded? I believe it is the same as not picking up satellites because of the aluminum foil trick.

SultanGris · Aug 23, 2015

locklin said:
So, if I'm indoors and can't pick up satellites I'm grounded? I believe it is the same as not picking up satellites because of the aluminum foil trick.

I think he was referring to to unplugging the antenna work around, hard to tell when they don't quote the post they are referring to. If they made it unable to fly at all without gps signal that's a pretty stupid move in my opinion and will lose them tons of business from professional drone users who have the ability to fly drones in a real manual mode which the inspire doesn't even have. They won't like being locked out of using the drone due to lack of signal, I know I won't anyway, lol! Especially since they advertise the ability to fly indoors where there is no gps signal anyway, I don't see that happening, but they have made some pretty stupid blunders so far, maybe they are that dumb, lol

Hammer · Aug 23, 2015

Here's my thread with flying in NFZ
http://www.inspirepilots.com/threads/defeating-airport-lock-out.5181/

damoncooper said:
Fixed in 1.4. Mandatory upgrade.

(To the guy who posted then deleted the aluminum foil over GPS trick)

Sad to see this thread beginning to repeat itself, just like Facebook groups. Attention span = 31 seconds

bryharv · Nov 17, 2015

AndyH said:
I'm not one to try it, but would disabling (unplugging) the gps work?

I tried it. Not super easy to remove the canopy either. Anyway, I unplugged the GPS, but this method does not work if you have the latest update because an error message pops up and motors will not start.

I also tried 20 layers of tin foil and RF blocking fabric, completely covering the canopy and GPS puck. This did not work either as I still got 4 satellites. I for sure would not want to find out what would happen if all of a sudden you pick up a satellite mid-flight whike in a DJI no-fly zone.

I have a 333 waiver and there are places I can legally fly but marked off by DJI.

Tony Waikiki · Dec 5, 2015

AndyH said:
I'm not one to try it, but would disabling (unplugging) the gps work?

No it wont... tried

coaircam · Dec 5, 2015

I have to imagine that in all the firmware code, there is a long list of lat/longs that the Inspire won't power up within.

It can't be that difficult for someone who knows how to software design/edit code, to simply delete these lists of coordinates, ending this drama.

The measures/counter-measures/counter-counter-measures/etc will always continue, sometimes its with a professional quad that commercial operators pay lots of money for, only to be grounded...

The Editor · Dec 5, 2015

coaircam said:
I have to imagine that in all the firmware code, there is a long list of lat/longs that the Inspire won't power up within.

It can't be that difficult for someone who knows how to software design/edit code, to simply delete these lists of coordinates, ending this drama.

The measures/counter-measures/counter-counter-measures/etc will always continue, sometimes its with a professional quad that commercial operators pay lots of money for, only to be grounded...

The problem with that is you will be running a modified non standard platform which will then void your commercial liability policy which is essential for commercial operations.