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DJI Cold weather Info FW 1.6

I am pretty hacked off yet another quiet software "enhancement" by DJI crippling the use of my Inspire as they seem to deem that if the batteries are below a certain temperature then DJI has decided you are not allowed to earn your money to recover the vast expenditure to become a professional pilot.

I understand if the phantom range has these training wheels attached but the inspire which they rate at -10 degrees on their website is actually disabled at 5 degrees...
I agree DJI should publish ALL the changes that their firmware imposes, however the problem is lack of information from them and with pilot SOPs as we learn to fly in winter.
A cold battery doesn't have the same performance as a warm one. As others have noted a LiPo will degrade to useless in cold temps.

I flew yesterday in -2.5ºC on 1.6 firmware.

I kept the batteries in a warm insulated bag that was at 20ºC. The battery cooled to 16ºC before I had the AC started up. I took off to 2m and performed a quick rotate CW-CCW and left/right/back/forward check and watched the batt temp and voltage for ~60 sec. The batt (with insulators) quickly got up to 25ºC and all 4 flights were perfect. The biggest problem was keeping the light dusting of fresh snow on the ground from blowing up into the AC on landing ;-) and overcoming the new No Fly Zones I had to register for to take off!

If your battery is cold, say 15ºC, you probably shouldn't fly with it regardless of DJI's settings. Just keep them warm before you fly. Why not a battery vest inside your coat if you want to avoid the battery warmer? I just use a picnic cooler with hand warmers packs and a themometer.

I am waiting to hear back from DJI with my FW 1.6 questions:
  1. Is 15ºC the trigger temp?
  2. Does the battery reserve calculation change? (ie drop by x% thereby cutting down flight time overall before RTH conditions set in)
  3. What is the percentage cut in propulsion performance so I can calculate safe wind conditions? (Standard wind max is 10m/s so what is the new value if the propulsion degrade kicks in?)
I hope this helps a bit.​
 
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I flew today at zero celsius. I had one battery at just over 50% and another freshly changed. It was a bit too windy for comfort, but as I'd driven a few miles and I was in a sheltered castle courtyard I thought I'd give it a go with the 50% battery for a few minutes and if the inspire was coping well with the wind then I'd use the fully charged battery for a longer flight.

I took it up to 3m and rotated it. It wasn't happy, working hard to keep stable. Then it initiated a critical landing. Onto snow (that's how cold it was). Battery was almost drained. It flew for only two minutes.

An interesting learning experience. Battery drain was fierce. I put it down to cold battery, cold ambient temperature, and the hard work it was doing to just remain stable.

Needless to say I packed up and didn't fly with the other pack.

Marketal
 
I've not updated mine yet, but are they saying that the craft will be in limp mode if the batteries are at < 25C? I live in the UK and the weather rarely gets that hot even in summer.
It's the temp of the battery we are talking about here not the weather. Keep that warm by all means available, no matter the air temp and it should be ok.

That's why battery temp on the top bar of GO is important to be seen. Hopefully this will come and we don't have to take the half baked restrictions of firmware intervening without pilot knowledge and leaving us stranded in an undesirable situation. Flicking back and forward to the battery screen just to check the battery temp mid flight is downright dangerous.

As a 2nd fall back the cutoff can save the AC from dropping from the sky but the pilot needs the info of the battery temp in order to pre plan and fly a safe mission and not get to the now imposed (1.6) throttle threshold all of a sudden. That's why I'm still on 1.5.

My concern is this next GEO firmware update may, I say may, be mandatory and leave us open to the risk as stated above if the temp display is not resolved.
 
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Did you use the insulator pads on the lipos? How much time do you get? I'm on a site in Kansas and fly without the pads and still seem to get decent lipo life
 
I definitely notice the slower speed in cold weather, I just adjust my flight to meet the slowness to battery life ratio. Good to know thanks for the response
 
I returned to the same castle this morning (to try and film the sunrise against it). The temperature was -3c, and little wind. I took the batteries in an insulated picnic bag with a two litre plastic bottle filled with hot water from the tap in it to keep them warm.

I flew it no problem for 12 - 13 mins before I brought it home. Even then it still wasn't below 25% - the battery temperature was 34.5c.

So I guess that there's no need to buy something from DJI (doesn't their battery warmer drain the battery?) if you have access to an empty coke bottle and a hot tap.

Cheers

Marketal
 
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I returned to the same castle this morning (to try and film the sunrise against it). The temperature was -3c, and little wind. I took the batteries in an insulated picnic bag with a two litre plastic bottle filled with hot water from the tap in it to keep them warm.

I flew it no problem for 12 - 13 mins before I brought it home. Even then it still wasn't below 25% - the battery temperature was 34.5c.

So I guess that there's no need to buy something from DJI (doesn't their battery warmer drain the battery?) if you have access to an empty coke bottle and a hot tap.

Cheers

Marketal

The Dji battery warmer is perfect if you are in the field! it only takes 3% of the battery in 10/15min. Tested in -30c and works like charm.
 
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It's the temp of the battery we are talking about here not the weather. Keep that warm by all means available, no matter the air temp and it should be ok.
Agree! It is the battery temperature that is all important with the 1.6 Firmware. IT should display with the Voltage on the top bar. (a better color would be nice to as I find it hard to read.)

IMPORTANT NOTE: 1.6 resets the file numbering system to zero! Be careful if you prefer to keep a running number sequence. I discovered my new shots reverted to DJI_0001.JPG! Not sure yet if I can set it to continue where I left off or if I will have to create a new structure for post 1.6 files...
 
Hi, The following info should be of use: The end of discharge for Li-Ion battery cell is 2.5V and the individual battery cell electronic protection circuit should be set to activate at about 2.3V in order to prevent irreversible battery cell degradation; in other words, the battery cell will disconnected at about 2.3V.

In addition, the I1 battery pack (comprising six battery cells) may possibly have extra electronic protection circuit and if so then the cut-off/disconnect voltage of the battery pack would be 6 x 2.3V = 13.8V.

As to the low temp the below generic info should explain all temp related questions.

Note1: The actual Voltage ver Capacity will be much lover for I1 battery pack as the discharge current is at least 1C rate as oppose to the pictured C/5 rate.
Note2: ALL that DJI is doing now is proper and technically correct.
Li-Ion_Ver_Discharge_and_Temp.jpg
 
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Thats not what my testing is coming up with! As you have contacts in DJI could you not get the true specifications of just what this feature does and the temperature trigger points?
Can you enlighten us as to what your testing has uncovered?
 
Thats not what my testing is coming up with! As you have contacts in DJI could you not get the true specifications of just what this feature does and the temperature trigger points?
Hi, all the info published is correct in accordance with industry standard specification for using Li-Ion cells/battery packs although DJI may have more conservative settings (I would definitely do just that). Most of all I wanted to demonstrate to you all the temp’s drastic effect on Li-Ion batteries capacity/performance/fly time and to help to keep ALL INSPIRE 1 flying. I have no contacts in DJI but it would be good for DJI to publish proper battery pack specification. It is a summer time in New Zealand so doing any cold temp testing is not practical. However, if someone from Northern Hemisphere is keen to do it then that would be very good and if help is required then please get in touch with me and I will assist.
 
Thats not what my testing is coming up with! As you have contacts in DJI could you not get the true specifications of just what this feature does and the temperature trigger points?
The FW 1.6.0.40 will not permit the motors to start if the battery temperature drops to below 15C. As stated you need to keep the battery warm prior to use by keeping it inside a warm car, insulated box or use the DJI Battery Heater. Operating around freezing (0C) the battery will cool very quickly and even one at 20C could be un-flyable by the time you complete your pre-flight checks. I use a 'weak' battery for all my preparations while one is warming in the heater. I swap it out immediately before take off and start warning the next one. I am seeing improved flight times with a pre-warmed battery despite losing 2-3% heating it. I am also seeing less battery stress (flashing red/yellow cells) in flight.
 
The FW 1.6.0.40 will. not permit the motors to start if the battery temperature drops to below 15C.

If that is your finding then it must because u are further north than me ;-) OR your packs are not charged to 100%.

I just wish DJI would publish a detailed information sheet for the 'Cold Weather' feature so we all know just what the trigger points are. I bought this AC for a project in the Arctic but am now am really questioning its ability. Rolling back to 1.5 is just delaying the inevitable. If I can get a full understanding of just what they have done with 1.6 then I can ensure the requirements are met to achieve a successful project.
 
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If that is your finding then it must because u are further north than me ;-) OR your packs are not charged to 100%.

I just wish DJI would publish a detailed information sheet for the 'Cold Weather' feature so we all know just what the trigger points are. I bought this AC for a project in the Arctic but am now am really questioning its ability. Rolling back to 1.5 is just delaying the inevitable. If I can get a full understanding of just what they have done with 1.6 then I can ensure the requirements are met to achieve a successful project.
I am flying at present around freezing (-5C to +2C). My packs are always charged to 100% before I go out - I would be a fool not to.

I received this email from DJI giving clear advice on cold weather operations:

Flying DJI aircraft in winter can be fun, but we have heard that some of our users have experienced issues when flying in cold weather. Did you know that as the temperature drops, so does the performance of the LiPo battery inside your aircraft? Read on to find out how to look after your battery and keep yourself in the air.

The Science

LiPo, or Lithium Polymer batteries drain faster the colder they get because the chemical reactions that they use to create electricity are slowed. This starts to occur at temperatures lower than 59°F (15°C) and is a known issue of all LiPo batteries.

At high altitudes where air pressure is low, motors on an aircraft have to spin faster to produce enough lift, meaning even more power is needed, in turn accelerating battery drain.

What this Means

In extreme cases, a battery could drain below 3V, causing reduced thrust or even battery shutoff due to over-discharge protection systems designed to keep your battery healthy.

Hot Tips for Beating the Cold

1. Make sure batteries are fully charged before each flight.
2. Warm batteries to 25°C or more before flight. We recommend using a battery heater.
3. Hover the aircraft for around a minute to allow the battery to warm up.
4. Turn on “Show Voltage on Main Screen" on the "Aircraft Battery" page of the DJI Go app. Do not continue flying if battery voltage drops below 3.2V.
 
The FW 1.6.0.40 will not permit the motors to start if the battery temperature drops to below 15C. As stated you need to keep the battery warm prior to use by keeping it inside a warm car, insulated box or use the DJI Battery Heater. Operating around freezing (0C) the battery will cool very quickly and even one at 20C could be un-flyable by the time you complete your pre-flight checks. I use a 'weak' battery for all my preparations while one is warming in the heater. I swap it out immediately before take off and start warning the next one. I am seeing improved flight times with a pre-warmed battery despite losing 2-3% heating it. I am also seeing less battery stress (flashing red/yellow cells) in flight.[/QU
Thank you for the valued comments. Seeing yellow is bad enough but seeing red “cells” is very bad. Please be careful! There will be hysteresis build in but red have to be very close to disconnect; your charge-up rate for cold weather should take to the account the extra battery cost that you definitely will incur.

FYI – the profiles that I published are for 6800 mAh battery cell but the 1100 mAh lesser capacity (6800 - 5700 mAh = 1100 mAh) would only marginally change the profiles and in absence of having the actual DJI profiles they are good for the explonation.

There is another way to explain: the temp profile applicable to the idling I1 current drain will be close to the C/2 (5700mAh/2 = ~2.85 A) and as soon you pull the power slowly at least 1C current will be drained (5700mAh/1= 5.7 A) and the Vol will drop to the lower level represented by the -30degC profile. The moment you will do sharp/quick manoeuvre a 2C (2x5700mAh = 11.4 A) will be drained for the duration of the manoeuver (red flashing) and the Vol will drop to the lower level represented by the -40degC profile > and if you keep it for long enough the battery cell or battery pack (or both) protection will activate …. So, be careful over your Scottish winter. DJI should really issue a white paper with all proper points that they must have as all of the above “is elementary” and was/is part of their battery pack design work. BTW I would NOT use the TB47 (4500mAh) battery in a cold temp environment.
 
I am flying at present around freezing (-5C to +2C). My packs are always charged to 100% before I go out - I would be a fool not to.

I received this email from DJI giving clear advice on cold weather operations:

Flying DJI aircraft in winter can be fun, but we have heard that some of our users have experienced issues when flying in cold weather. Did you know that as the temperature drops, so does the performance of the LiPo battery inside your aircraft? Read on to find out how to look after your battery and keep yourself in the air.

The Science

LiPo, or Lithium Polymer batteries drain faster the colder they get because the chemical reactions that they use to create electricity are slowed. This starts to occur at temperatures lower than 59°F (15°C) and is a known issue of all LiPo batteries.

At high altitudes where air pressure is low, motors on an aircraft have to spin faster to produce enough lift, meaning even more power is needed, in turn accelerating battery drain.

What this Means

In extreme cases, a battery could drain below 3V, causing reduced thrust or even battery shutoff due to over-discharge protection systems designed to keep your battery healthy.

Hot Tips for Beating the Cold

1. Make sure batteries are fully charged before each flight.
2. Warm batteries to 25°C or more before flight. We recommend using a battery heater.
3. Hover the aircraft for around a minute to allow the battery to warm up.
4. Turn on “Show Voltage on Main Screen" on the "Aircraft Battery" page of the DJI Go app. Do not continue flying if battery voltage drops below 3.2V.

Thats what I started the thread with. Its says nothing what so ever about trigger point temps or just what happens like limp mode or motor shut down
 
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