Drone / Rotary Wing Safety Presentation

[SixtyMike]

"the major threat isn't fixed winged AC but rotorcraft" I disagree. The major threat to aviation today are irresponsible UAV operators w/o any aeronautical knowledge who endanger everything on the air. .

I fully agree. I'm a commercial helo and fixed wing pilot as well as a hobbyist Inspire operator. Education is the key to operating safely in all airspace environments whether manned or unmanned and regardless of altitude.

Unbeknownst to the uneducated, there are many instances where fixed wing and helicopter traffic operate LEGALLY below 500' AGL. These include Alert Areas, Military Operations Areas (MOAs) and Low Level Military Training Routes (VR/IR Routes). Some have operating altitudes down to 100' AGL.

Examples of this in areas that I fly are:

Alert Area A-531 (about 300 sq. miles) in North Carolina vicinity of Troy where a friend lives. "Extensive Military Helicopter Training 200' AGL to 1500' AGL. Right there on the Charlotte VFR Sectional that is easily accessible VFRMAP - Digital Aeronautical Charts

Beaufort 3 MOA in South Carolina starts at 100' AGL.
Coastal 5 MOA in Georgia starts at 300' AGL
VR 1003 in Georgia starts at 200'
I do call the appropriate Flight Service Station (FSS) and ask if the areas/routes are active for where I plan to fly. I also check this website:
Special Use Airspace & Air Traffic Control Assigned Airspace

Also have to watch out for Coast Guard helos below 500' as well as the county mosquito sprayer in the MD-500 at treetop level.

If you are educated about airspace, educate others. If you're not, please learn and then educate others.

 

[slim.slamma]

The only answer is to ban all drones or make them as expensive at helicopters to operate and keep helicopter pilots in work doing jobs better suited to drones. Or how about accept that drones are here to stay and not fly about at full speed at low altitude where drones and birds are found. As soon as I see a low flying aircraft in the air I get my Inspire as low as possible and stay put until I know what's going on. It's not my full responsibility to be on a constant look out for low fly helicopters traveling at full speed. How is anyone meant to do anything about that. If some hotshot heli pilot wants to show off flying low for no reason then they are far more likely to hit a bird than a drone as was the likely cause of the two strikes that were mentioned in the presentation. Maybe they should Google helicopter crashes instead on drone crashes. Sorry for the rant but to my eye its just jobs protection on their part as they can see where this is ultimately all leading to.

Facts

 

[slim.slamma]

As I've been saying for a while now the major threat isn't fixed winged AC but rotorcraft. They are supposed to fly above 500 feet, but they also takeoff and land at location other than airports. Additionally, the traffic copters and police and rescue copters do fly lower than 500 feet and not just on takeoff and landing.

Part of the problem we've been having is that police aviation units want to fly low where ever they want and they don't like drones being in the same airspace so they've been particularly aggressive at going after drone pilots even when the drone pilots are doing nothing wrong. The police aviation units would just love to have drones banned outright so they don't have to worry about it.

So, if you are flying a drone in an area that may see rotorcraft you had better be on your toes and probably avoid going above 200 feet and perhaps less. It won't matter if you are legally permitted to fly at 400 feet if a rescue or police helicopter hit your drone and crashes and the crew is killed you will be vilified and likely subject to arrest and prosecution. If you have the money to hire a good lawyer you'll probably win, but if you don't have DEEP pockets you will almost certainly lose.


Brian

I frequently fly over the Henry Hudson River near the GWB under 200FT, for over a year now.
Heavy traffic, its like flying at a airport
300, 400 way too risky over the river being this is my go to spot, i dont test it. I think its become mutual respect
Legally flying at 400ft in the middle of the day id be the numpty
2am it Slamma time
600ft why not

 

[Barry Summers]

I fully agree. I'm a commercial helo and fixed wing pilot as well as a hobbyist Inspire operator. Education is the key to operating safely in all airspace environments whether manned or unmanned and regardless of altitude.

Unbeknownst to the uneducated, there are many instances where fixed wing and helicopter traffic operate LEGALLY below 500' AGL. These include Alert Areas, Military Operations Areas (MOAs) and Low Level Military Training Routes (VR/IR Routes). Some have operating altitudes down to 100' AGL.

Examples of this in areas that I fly are:

Alert Area A-531 (about 300 sq. miles) in North Carolina vicinity of Troy where a friend lives. "Extensive Military Helicopter Training 200' AGL to 1500' AGL. Right there on the Charlotte VFR Sectional that is easily accessible VFRMAP - Digital Aeronautical Charts

Beaufort 3 MOA in South Carolina starts at 100' AGL.
Coastal 5 MOA in Georgia starts at 300' AGL
VR 1003 in Georgia starts at 200'
I do call the appropriate Flight Service Station (FSS) and ask if the areas/routes are active for where I plan to fly. I also check this website:
Special Use Airspace & Air Traffic Control Assigned Airspace

Also have to watch out for Coast Guard helos below 500' as well as the county mosquito sprayer in the MD-500 at treetop level.

If you are educated about airspace, educate others. If you're not, please learn and then educate others.

Are you aware that the majority of A-531 is about to become a major DoD drone-testing range? The State of North Carolina's NGAT agency is creating an 'A2C2' test area to benefit the DoD. One end will be anchored at Mackall Army Airfield, the other at Stanley County Airport, which is operated by the NC Air National Guard.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/108366839/map2.jpg

I don't believe it's a coincidence that this is happening right when Mackall is receiving a new squadron of MQ-1C Grey Eagles. Expect to see the largest (and most accident-prone) military drones operating over civilian areas in the near future.

 

[licensed pilot]

What's so unusual about defining an area for military UAV operations. Here in AZ the Army has a chunk of sky reserved for UAV training around and near Ft. Huachuca.
"(and most accident-prone) military drones": what do you base this on? source?

 

[Barry Summers]

What's so unusual about defining an area for military UAV operations. Here in AZ the Army has a chunk of sky reserved for UAV training around and near Ft. Huachuca.
"(and most accident-prone) military drones": what do you base this on? source?

View attachment 9045

One thing that is unusual about this one is that they have not made this public in any meaningful way, or disclosed the extent to which it will be a military operation. NGAT is a supposedly-civilian state agency operating out of NCSU. Yet they have the authority to claim an active MOA as a new UAV test area?

The only place this has been made "public" (if you can call it that) was in a briefing to a handful of legislators in a semi-abandoned storefront in the middle of nowhere, three hours from the state capital, this past January:
http://www.ncleg.net/documentsites/committees/house2015-172/1-25-2016_Meeting/Agenda_ 2016-01-25.pdf

I had to pester the chairman's staff to get this supposedly-public document posted online:
http://www.ncleg.net/documentsites/...Aviation_Walston_Gibson_Snyder_01 25 2016.pdf (page 55)

Sources:
http://www.businessinsider.com/bloomberg-study-shows-drones-most-accident-prone-in-air-force-2012-6
MQ-9 Reaper drones among most accident-prone in Air Force
When drones fall from the sky

 

[licensed pilot]

I see your point, don't know how much informing the general public needs, or pays any attention to. However, aviators are well aware of Ft Huachuca's UAV traffic. I'll bet the average civilian is uninformed. As pilots, we are very much informed via notams, TFRs, MOAs,and other sources, of UAV traffic.

Your sources only state Air Force. The Army also flies Grey Eagles at Huachuca (guessing the Navy and Marines do also; and Homeland Security) . It would be interesting to know if the Army is better at flying the MQ-1 than the Air Force.
Thanks for an interesting posting. The document appears to show a state that is aggressive in pursuing UAS business opportunities.

 

[Barry Summers]

I see your point, don't know how much informing the general public needs, or pays any attention to. However, aviators are well aware of Ft Huachuca's UAV traffic. I'll bet the average civilian is uninformed. As pilots, we are very much informed via notams, TFRs, MOAs,and other sources, of UAV traffic.

Your sources only state Air Force. The Army also flies Grey Eagles at Huachuca (guessing the Navy and Marines do also; and Homeland Security) . It would be interesting to know if the Army is better at flying the MQ-1 than the Air Force.
Thanks for an interesting posting. The document appears to show a state that is aggressive in pursuing UAS business opportunities.

"don't know how much informing the general public needs"
I notice you post your FAA Section 333 number. Are you aware of FAA Section 334? I won't be surprised if you say no. I called the FAA & talked to a media person there who initially said, "To the best of my knowledge, there is no Section 334." Moving up the chain of command, I eventually traded emails with the FAA's chief spokesman, and he told me that I was the only person in the world who had ever asked about it, in the 4 years since it was enacted. It's only about opening all US domestic airspace to military UAV. Why would anyone care about that?

IMO, the general public needs to know that this is coming. Aside from the safety concerns, we should be discussing whether we want to give the federal govt. such a huge new capability to conduct surveillance on US citizens. But it's radio silence in the US media, for some reason.

 

[licensed pilot]

"should be discussing whether we want to give the federal govt. such a huge new capability to conduct surveillance on US citizens. But it's radio silence in the US media, for some reason."
I initially assumed you were an aviator concerned with the safety of the national airspace.
I'm not into conspiracy theories so I'll bail out now. Thanks.

 

[Barry Summers]

"should be discussing whether we want to give the federal govt. such a huge new capability to conduct surveillance on US citizens. But it's radio silence in the US media, for some reason."
I initially assumed you were an aviator concerned with the safety of the national airspace.
I'm not into conspiracy theories so I'll bail out now. Thanks.

Fine. If you have nothing else to say, don't bother replying. But seriously, you don't see allowing military UAV unrestricted access to the national airspace to be a safety issue? That's not a "conspiracy theory". The documentation is abundant that that is the goal of the DoD, through FAA Section 334.

 

[The Editor]

Are you aware that the majority of A-531 is about to become a major DoD drone-testing range? The State of North Carolina's NGAT agency is creating an 'A2C2' test area to benefit the DoD. One end will be anchored at Mackall Army Airfield, the other at Stanley County Airport, which is operated by the NC Air National Guard.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/108366839/map2.jpg

I don't believe it's a coincidence that this is happening right when Mackall is receiving a new squadron of MQ-1C Grey Eagles. Expect to see the largest (and most accident-prone) military drones operating over civilian areas in the near future.

OK - so you join today and your only 4 post to date are all about how 'they are all out to get us' and 'we are all being watched'
Really?
This forum is about Multirotor professionals and enthusiasts and specifically the DJI Inspire platform.
It is not about how the government is ganging up against us all and using military drones to spy on everybody.
Can I suggest your paranoia is directed onto a military based forum rather than an aerial photography community.
Since apparently you are the only person in the world ever who has brought up the subject of 334.........they will be watching you - everywhere...even while you sleep!!!!!

 

[Barry Summers]

OK - so you join today and your only 4 post to date are all about how 'they are all out to get us' and 'we are all being watched'
Really?
This forum is about Multirotor professionals and enthusiasts and specifically the DJI Inspire platform.
It is not about how the government is ganging up against us all.
Can I suggest your paranoia is directed onto a military based forum rather than an aerial photography community.
Since apparently you are the only person in the world ever who has brought up the subject of 334.........they will be watching you - everywhere...even while you sleep!!!!!

Sorry for bothering you - someone mentioned a special-use area I am familiar with, and I wondered if they knew it's uses were being expanded. I was done, really. Your hostility is a little over the top. I won't bug you anymore.