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Extremely reputable retailer but not sure about DJI

Discussion in 'Inspire 1 Discussion' started by Chnjab, Nov 14, 2015.

  1. Chnjab

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    I took the leap and bought a PRO however I'm unsure if I'm going to keep it as being an earlier production unit it doesn't have the more powerful 1510 transmitter DJI licensed and began producing in October. I first called LA tech support as I was willing to ship it to them to swap it out but they said to return it to the retailer for an exchange. I drove back to the city and B&H actually opened half their stock searching for one with the new transmitter only to find they're all the older version. Looks like the down side to being one of the first to get stock. I can absolutely vouch for their sales practices and how they treat customers. Every case they opened searching for the FCC ID number I wanted was a unit that they'll have to sell as used as the seal was broken and although the serial numbers are all identified on the outside of the box the FCC ID isn't. I started cringing at every seal they cut. After considerable effort on their part we weren't successful. They're going to contact DJI and ask when they will receive units with the updated transmitter as they're uncomfortable with the situation ethically with the stock they have and have offered to allow me to exchange the one I left with when they are able to obtain the unit I seek. I would tell everyone here to watch for used PROs for sale on B&H's site and go for it they'll be a few and they'll more than likely be knew with nothing more than a cut seal and the older transmitter. I would also encourage everyone to patronize B&H as their commitment to exemplary customer service is rare in this day and age.
    Now I am in no way a DJI basher and truly think they are leading the industry which is much more difficult than following or worse copying and undercutting other manufacturers. Those who have issues are very vocal but if one digs deeper they're percentage of units with issues is far below all the major electronics manufacturers. To me an incredible fact considering they entertain warrantying a product the user can definitely have a large influence on its failure rate. All that said I have dealt with range issues which I come to find out can at least partially be attributed to the RC and Aircraft I own (an early model) and that even for the first model there are differences in transmitting power depending on which RC you came with it. That only really means they continued improving the product which is admirable and rarely will a manufacturer voluntarily inform and upgrade existing sold units. Now I purchase another DJI product and overlook that it wasn't just bad luck that caused me to spend a considerable of time and money modifying for range as I'm equally at fault as I never took them to task and sent it in (and waited for three months) for them to probably send it back with a newer RC. I'm not sure I agree with not offering repair parts for sale (especially with three month repair waits) but they're shaping the market and that's they're prerogative. I am however very surprised they aren't restricting the installation of the remaining 1410 transmitters to the end of the first model production and equipping all PRO and V2 models with the 1510 considering its a 5dbm difference at peak and that every 6dbm the effective achievable range is doubled and both are being sold at an increase in price. I feel this situation means there is room for improvement in manufacturing and sales practices. I know this company is growing faster than expected and will experience its issues but this type situation points to an issue of corporate culture that isn't versed in simple ethics which concerns me as even the delays in promised features could be explained away with not releasing products that aren't completely vetted. I'm attaching the actual test results commissioned by DJI and supplied to the FCC for licensing the transmitters in question so what I'm asserting isn't considered hearsay. I also created an album with much more data and information. I hope DJI doesn't continue down this road of corporate management as it would be unfortunate considering the potential they possess and I hope I'm able to get my PRO I desire with the 1510 transmitter.[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  2. Chnjab

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    The difference between the 1410 which has a peak power of 24dbm or 255mw and the 1510 which has a peak power of 30dbm or 1000mw is a 392% increase. Another way to look at it is that every increase of 6dbm the achievable range doubles.
     
  3. The Editor

    The Editor Moderator
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    Only theoretically. RF propagation is by no means an exact science.
     
  4. Chnjab

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    I'm very aware and agree that RF propagation is influenced by many limiting factors and environmental affects. However I'm not sure that disclaimer applies to my representation of the difference in available and achievable results since those same factors apply to both values equally. Therefore if the lesser powered transmitter was operated while being affected by a limiting set of variables the performance of the 6dbm greater transmitter would still effectively double when operated with the same set of limiting variables. DJI claims 5km of range without any disclaimer of limitations created by a lack of exact science in their RF calculations. Considering the amount of unquestionable science involved in RF and how heavily we as a society rely upon it. The level of predictability of performance is becoming as reliable as any other environmentally influenced science which truth be told is all of them.;)
     
  5. The Editor

    The Editor Moderator
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    True however, you do not really expect to get the quoted MPG out of your car and therefore I would never rely on quoted distances for RF devices - walkie talkies are a prime example of this. Who has ever got 25 miles out of a set of PMR radios? Yet the manufacturer will quote this number in 'ideal' conditions. This does not only mean the absence of RF noise etc but also the ideal terrain, and atmospheric conditions as well.
    Personally, I think the whole thing is moot in any case since I have found that a very reliable link can be maintained over legal permitted maximum distances (400' agl and 500m VLOS distance). Of course nobody should be flying beyond line of sight in any case which even with Top Gun fighter pilot vision is 700-800m at best. ;)
     
  6. Chnjab

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    Touche':cool:
     
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  7. Chnjab

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    So although I started a post here to inform others as to what transpired with my PRO purchase I haven't provided updates as it has yet to be resolved. I did happen to notice others posting on the DJI forums and chimed in. Without copying and pasting a 40 post thread it is safe for me to report others have become aware of the situation with DJI's questionable manufacturing and sales practices. Although not identified as one an obvious DJI employee posted the following...

    Mike-the-cat
    Singapore
    19#
    I've verified with DJI that the RF output doesn't differ across the two models. Direct distance tests confirms. There will be some variation in output between unit to unit but I have both v2.0 and v1.0 and the range is very similar. 'Macho man' is not correct. I have written to advise DJI that the FCC posting is causing concern to buyers unfamiliar with the company.
    Having used DJI products for 3 years now I can say that their service has improved to the point that it is almost unrecognisable.
    If you want to bash Chinese products or Chinese, please elect NOT to purchase DJI and stick with something that 3DR makes. However, do not vent here. And don't use F-bombs. Thanks
    2015-11-22 13:09

    To which I responded "Mike what your reporting is completely untrue and an egregious lie. The transmitter in the 1410 model has a max of 24db or 255mw while the transmitter in the 1510 has 30db or 1000mw. This effectively doubles the achievable range. All these are facts and can be verified in any manner you'd like. DJI actually hires the company who provides the testing data to the FCC and those tests are public domain and I am in possession of every page. So "they said" don't worry about it is bs as this is quickly reaching a point of fraud as opposed to a manufacturing error. Ask yourself how many class action attorneys would love to have the opportunity to represent the thousands it's turning out that were duped by a foreign company reaping millions. DJI wouldn't have a chance in a US court. They say when your caught your caught and lying only makes it worse. They should start sending out requests for the affected purchasers to exchange their units and apologize for their mistake. It's their last chance to not look like thieves."

    Another DJI Employee went on to post these two beauties I'm sure the FCC would be quite interested in...
    DJI-Tim
    Hong Kong
    Offline
    34#
    All the Inspire 1 V2.0 are marked with 1410, have 3510H laser mark on a motors and vibration absorbing board compatible with Zenmuse X5.
    So what you have there is original inspire 1 v.2.0, nothing to worry about. [​IMG]
    2015-11-24 16:44 DJI-Tim
    Hong Kong
    Offline
    35#
    Starting from next month we will use 1510 marks on inspire 1 v2.0
    However, this is the same aircraft with different stickers
    2015-11-24 17:42

    I recently learned my post earned me a deletion for "Malicious irrigation" from Tahoe Ed who is the moderator. He also carefully wielded his scalpel to try to minimize the level of vitriol present in the thread and then closed it to further comment. Now I will say I respect Tahoe Ed and searched for a way to contact him privately without avail. I went as far as to examine his profile here only to find he hasn't posted in almost a month. So in an effort to learn what he felt was across the line I posted seeking a private conversation. Unfortunately for whatever reason that is not possible in their realm and my request was met with the following. From here I'll post the entire thread before it may disappear as my patience with the entire situation is waning and I have too many tools at my disposal to be jerked around honestly.

    Moderator
    Home / Inspire
    22 1 2015-11-27 12:16:38
    njabinc
    United States
    Offline
    1#
    Can anyone tell me how one contacts the moderator privately. Preferably a PM. Thank you.
    2015-11-27 12:16
    DJI-Tim
    Hong Kong
    Offline
    2#
    Unfortunately there is no PM moderator function on this forum. You can tell me here, i'll do my best to help you!
    2015-11-27 14:28
    Management
    njabinc
    Satellite Provider
    Offline
    3#
    Hello Tim and thank you for the quick response. Although I felt this situation might be better handled privately a display of full transparency could also be more productive. I was hoping to have a discussion with Tahoe Ed as he felt something I posted deserved deleting for "Malicious irrigation". I respect both the job he is tasked with and him for his wealth of knowledge, experience, and endless willingness to help others. That said I strive to be of unquestionable integrity and tend to call things as I see them good or bad. I have never taken the position of DJI basher or blind cheerleader either. I believe that DJI has positioned itself as the leader in an industry experiencing exponential growth, a large part of which directly attributed to the products and efforts of DJI themselves. I also believe to a certain degree DJI found itself unprepared for the rate of said growth which resulted in many cases of horrible customer service, extremely unreasonable service times experienced, failures to keep product release timelines, and not yet provided predicted functionality on all platforms. All of which has clearly shown continued improvement. Since joining the UAV community both here and on Inspirepilots.com I have generally encouraged reasonable expectations due to the aforementioned situations and have regularly expressed favorable opinions of DJI. I am a multi-product purchaser and have been negatively affected by two of my purchases including my most recent and largest transaction without yet having a resolution since 11-8-15. The facts cast an unfavorable light upon DJI and their manufacturing and sales policies. My intention in seeking a discussion with Ed is to learn what line he feels I crossed in my post given its undeniable factual basis and that the tenor displayed was of hope for DJI to display moral integrity in handling the situation with honorable practices to prevent the production of fodder for the ever increasing vocal detractors. I have remained for the most part silent as one of the largest retailers in the United States has continued to report to me in writing now multiple times that they have been unable to receive credible information or assistance to resolve the obvious inequity and continue to apologize and promise a resolution at all costs. There are many extremely high visibility venues available to someone with an intention to sensationalize this situation during the most lucrative retail environment experienced yearly. None of which I have in any way entertained. My sincere concern is that by the deletion of my post there begins to be the impression that there may be a monumental conspiracy to defraud that I truly hoped was in no way possible or probable. I felt and still feel that transparency in the handling of such a situation would provide the absolute proof if DJI's corporate integrity and silence those who would benefit or enjoy the besmirching of the company. I hope for a chance to hear from and understand Ed's position and even more so look forward to a positive resolution to the issues surrounding the acquisition of my Inspire 1 PRO and the equipment that purchase entitled me to that I have yet to receive.

    So I again post to inform those in our community of what is taking place and what to be mindful of. I also know our respected Editor may have more abilities to communicate than a lowly hobbiest as myself. If he so pleased to help my message is clear. My Patience is gone. I want what i paid 5k for and I still don't have it. I was once asked to analogize what image and perception is and how powerful it can be. So I presented this question to those in attendance. If you were to pull in your driveway and see me just exiting your home while pulling up my zipper what image and perception might you immediately form. Had I merely needed the use of your facilities or had I treated myself to something much more endearing. Image and perception are indeed quite powerful and unfortunately equally quite easily and sometimes unfairly influenced.
     
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  8. offshorecl1

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    we may here speak of happiness that a modorator is here that "knowledge does business." I hereby testify give my respect and gratitude to "The Editor" staff member, which always good advice, and really knows his stuff! Information, which we sometimes vain questions without answer DJI!
     
  9. Mike Walker

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    Thanks for sharing all of this.

    Have you any updates or had any response from Dji? as I have just purchased the V2.0 as an upgrade from the early I1 and it has the FCC #1410 markings and not the 1510.

    Again Thanks for sharing.
     
  10. The Editor

    The Editor Moderator
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    For the UK it makes no difference and is moot.
    Under OFCOM legislation unlicenced fixed antenna 2.4ghz transmitting devices are limited to 100mW/20dba EIRP.
    It is only in the US that increased power is permitted up to 1000mW/1watt.
     
  11. Mike Walker

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    Hi Ed,
    Just made some enquirers myself with a reputable UK Dji supplier and this was his reply,


    Quote,, I'll take a look now and make a quick phone call

    Hey Mike, this one >>> FCC ID SS3-WM6101410 by SZ DJI TECHNOLOGY CO., LTD for DJI Inspire 1 describes it as an Inspire 1 whereas this one >>> FCC ID SS3-WM6101510 by SZ DJI TECHNOLOGY CO., LTD for DJI Inspire 1 V2.0 describes it as an Inspire 1 V2.0

    Maybe that's the difference?

    That would say to me that the V1.0 is 0.255w and the V2.0 is 0.931w Unquote,,


    Regards.
     
  12. The Editor

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    Yes he's right except the power will be limited to 100mW EIRP in the UK through GPS location information.
    Just as a side note - there has already been issues in Finland where their OFCOM equivalent body has deemed the V2 illegal due to its power output!
     
  13. Mike Walker

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    Thanks for this Ed and understood.
    Still no V2.0 markings on anything other than on the paper rapping around the supplied case ??
    All these bar codes and serial# stickers with just Inspire1 labeled, nothing with V2.0 on it.

    Regards.
     
  14. Mike Walker

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    No V2.0 markings is a bit strange,,

    Got to say though, I really enjoy the Inspire, sometimes a bit of a range freek over the River Humber, when deemed safe that is,,

    Regards
    and Thanks for a great site.
     
  15. Chnjab

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    The responses that I have received from multiple sources is that DJI is using the 1410 transmitters that they have in stock until they run out and only then will regular production units receive the 1510 transmitters that the PRO & V2 were designed, tested, and approved with. Now of course the units that were supplied to certain employees and press for testing and feedback were manufactured with the correct 1510 units in them. I'm genuinly surprised certain members of our community who have the power and access necessary to possibly address such a situation have chosen not to. I have been extremely fortunate in that my retailer has nort waivered from their position which is that as soon as they receive one with the correct transmitter they will exchange mine for it. What bothers me though is although I should end up with what I paid for what about everyone else? Who's going to make it right for them and doesnt it seem that those of us that know what has transpired have a resoincibility to not just look the other way?
     
  16. damoncooper

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    Thanks again Chnjab for researching and reporting this.

    Did you ever get a response from Tahoe Ed or others at DJI?

    What happened to the follow up post you made on the DJI forum? Was it also subsequently deleted?
     
  17. Chnjab

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    My posts on the DJI forum were not only ignored but deleted multiple times. They also have removed any mentions of this situation on a daily basis from their site. I addressed them directly and respectfully and was ignored. I have spoken to numerous representatives by phone and have received enough different stories to know they're aware it's an issue and will say anything to get you off the phone. Anyone else who has cared enough to do so has gotten the same result. Air Miles counted 5 different stories. Most not remotely federally legal as you can see from my cut and pastes from the DJI forum. When a tech rep says we put the 1510 in but only had 1410 decals so don't worry he has just admitted to a federal crime punishable by a fine larger than the price of the unit per unit. All that said I know what I have in writing from B&H and my integrity won't allow me to betray their trust in me by communicating it to me in writing but represents what they, one of the largest retailers for DJI in this country, were told by they're rep. You only need to look at they're web site and recognize they replaced the range specifications for the PRO and V2 with the original Inspire 1 specs after my early November transaction and subsequent communications. I'm not sure if it has been changed yet but I do know what was up for all of December as I checked.
     
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  18. Baron1964

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    After seeing the ' only authorized in U.S. ' comment, I'm wondering where we can find that same info for other countries : Canada for example.

    Buyer beware is one thing , but DJI and we are bound by the legalities as well.

    Saying the argument moot doesn't account for signal penetration , am I missing something here.

    Lastly, are we in Canada legally able to operate using the ~ .931w inspire 1 V2?





    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  19. damoncooper

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    FWIW I registered the Inspire Spec web page with the internet way back machine earlier this year so there should be a record of the changes