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FPV camera app with terrain elevation

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by White Airwolf, May 5, 2016.

  1. White Airwolf

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    I still am somewhat confused by the read outs and what they mean exactly for terrain elevation.
    The Chinese translation into English on their site just doesn't cut it.
    I want to fly over an object on a mountain, namely St. Joseph's Oratory in Montreal, with its varying heights up the hill.
    What exactly do the three numbers on the waypoints mean?
    Do I use the height or waypoint height and add the supposed height of the trees etc?
    I would like to know which of these numbers, if not all, I need to pay particular attention too. This is very very important and I need to know, without any uncertainty, what they mean and how I use them to judge height.
    Above ground height does that mean above sea level, point at which I took off, or top of a mountain height?
    Which do I depend on? I'm assuming the height only refers to the hill height and would not include the height of the structure.
     
  2. Canuck32

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    Location:
    Alberta, Canada
    No idea what app your talking about.
    Hate to break it to you but that flight would be illegal unless you have a commercial SFOC and I know the Quebec region doesn't grant flight like that. Even recreationally it's illegal as your within a couple of blocks of at least 8 heliports, and Montreal airport flight paths and you have to stay 9 km away from heliports and airports.
     
  3. White Airwolf

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    I know that. It was a hypothetical scenario.
    My question was about the terrain elevation app with FPV camera. I suggest you look it up.
     
  4. Canuck32

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    Location:
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    Name of app?
     
  5. White Airwolf

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    As I said, FPV Camera.
    The best on the market.
     
  6. RaptorMan

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    As far as I know the elevation data in all the apps including the DGI GO app is elevation above the takeoff point and is NOT elevation above the ground per se. If you look at the data in the recorded flight data you will see additional elevation data from the GPS, but as far as I know the only elevation data available to any of the apps for flight control is barometric elevation that's zero'd at take off.

    What I do is use Google Earth to set a path and then turn on the elevation so I can see what the elevation is over the path. Then, by knowing what the elevation is where I plan to take off, again using Google Earth, I can see how high I need to be at any point on the path.


    Brian
     
  7. FPV Camera

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    Do this screenshot and graph help?
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    #7 FPV Camera, May 6, 2016
    Last edited: May 6, 2016
    slim.slamma likes this.
  8. White Airwolf

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    No,

    I need clarifiction of all he 3 numbers around a waypoint.
    I need to be crystal clear on this.
    Waypoint 1 or instance, 150/49/794
    Waypoint 2 180/-11/884
    Which do I depend on?
    I know it doesn't take into account the trees or buildings etc.
    So I add say 30 metres on top of one of the figures?
     
  9. FPV Camera

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    Copy-and-paste from Terrain Elevation and hope it helps.

    Terrain elevation is crucial for planning and flying in hilly area, especially autonomous waypoint flights. It helps judging elevation of mountain or valley without guesswork for shooting safer and focusing better on target/POI. Terrain elevation is fully integrated in Mission Planner without requiring Google Earth, web browser nor any other apps/tools.
    • When "Show Elevation" option is enabled in Settings menu and with internet connection, Mission Planner would retrieve elevation data from multiple DEM (Digital Elevation Model) sources automatically. Additional ground level elevation of Home, Waypoint, Target (POI) and AGL (Above Ground Level) values are shown on the map. When you save a mission, ground level elevation of all waypoints, targets and panoramas are also saved in mission file for offline use. However, it does NOT cache elevation data for the entire terrain (like Google Map) in the app.
    • Home Elevation: Elevation of planned home point. Once home point is changed or updated upon connecting to RC/aircraft, the elevation and all corresponding AGL of waypoints and targets (POIs) are updated accordingly. The screenshot shows 693m elevation at home point.
    • Waypoint Ground Elevation: Ground level elevation of waypoint. The screenshot shows 794m at waypoint-1 and 884m at waypoint-2 respectively.
    • Target (POI) Ground Elevation: Ground level elevation of target (POI). The screenshot shows 932m at target-1, which is a weather radar station at the peak of mountain. With accurate target (POI) ground elevation, Auto-Tilt gimbal control can focus the targets right at the center of your footage even in various elevation terrain.
    • Height: This is normal planned Height of waypoints and targets above/below home point (as known as AHL - Above Home Level). All waypoint/target/panorama height settings are based on home point. The screenshot shows 150m at waypoint-1 and 180m at waypoint-2 respectively. When you set/adjust the height of waypoint/target/panorama, AGL of waypoint/target/panorama is updated accordingly.
    • AGL (Above Ground Level): This is planned altitude of waypoints and targets above/below the terrain (calculated per Home Elevation + Height - Waypoint/Target Ground Elevation). The screenshot shows 49m at waypoint-1 and -11m at waypoint-2 respectively, while negative value means below terrain elevation. If we fly this mission, aircraft will crash into mountain/tree between waypoint-1 and waypoint-2. AGL also excludes trees, buildings, power line towers or any obstacles in the field, which should be taken into account in planning stage.
     
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  10. White Airwolf

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    Still. Confused.
     
  11. Tubbyengineer

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    It's actually pretty simple if you look at the screen shot!
    The two numbers above each Waypoint are Height (Your aircrafts vertical seperation from ground level at the Home point), and AGL (your aircrafts vertical seperation from the point on the ground it is currently flying over). The number below each way point is the Height above sea level.

    So in the Waypoint 1 example you show above the waypoint is 150 above your Home point, 49 above ground at that point and 794 above sea level. and yes you need to add sufficient clearance for obstacles such as trees and buildings to the 2nd number - or AGL at each waypoint to ensure you don't crash.

    Waypoint 2 is showing a Negative figure for AGL at that point so unless it flying under a bridge or in some kind of narrow gorge not shown in the normal contour data then you would be trying to fly 11m underground - pretty much guaranteeing an unpleasant early end to the flight.
     
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  12. White Airwolf

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    What they really need to change is the home point elevation from whatever it is above sea level to just "zero".
    Much easier to understand this way.
    Do I really need to know how high I am above sea level?
    I mean really?
     
  13. Tubbyengineer

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    Height above sea level is because sea level is the international reference for altitudes - all commercial airlines and pretty much all aviation and mapping uses sea level as the reference - so if there is a NOTAM or TFR, or even just for weather and windspeed forecasts then you need to be aware of the altitudes above sea level
     
  14. RaptorMan

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    Makes sense and thanks for clearing that up. This additional data may seem unnecessary, but if you're flying in hilly areas knowing more about the various elevations is critical. As I've done most of my flying by hand and often in hilly areas I've relied on Google Earth to learn the elevation profile of the area I plan to fly, but this approach looks very useful.

    I'm tempted to download the app and give it a whirl, but I felt so burned with Autopilot that I'm leery of these automated flight and mission planning programs. I see reference to a subscription plan -- is that the only option and how many modules or sub apps are available for the I1 Pro? Also, how do I control the camera in flight to change f/#, ISO, or to focus?

    Brian
     
  15. Tubbyengineer

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    I'm pretty new to the Inspire and related software so I can't answer most of that, but from what I can tell on the App site it'll cost $8.99 for the FPV Camera app, then another $14.99 for the mission planner, $7.99 for the FPV Goggles bit and $6.99 for the flight log. Frankly the mission planner would seem to be the only bit you really want...

    Thing is if you use the Waypoint feature of the GO App, you simply record points along the route as you fly it then land and replace the battery if necessary or start the mission - apparently it will mirror everything you did including camera angles...
     
  16. RaptorMan

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    The Go app's waypoint feature will allow you to record waypoints using the C1 button on the RC and you can then re-fly the mission with those waypoints but I do not believe it handles the camera panning -- you need to do that yourself as I understand it. If you select "Consistent with record" the drone will point in the direction it was pointing when you recorded the waypoint but that's not actually controlling the camera/gymbal panning.

    I've looked at some of the videos for FPV's Mission Planner, but they do not know how to make training videos and as far as I'm concerned there videos are nearly worthless. I had similar complaints about Autopilots videos so it seems to be a rampant problem in this industry. Basically they have a camera view or screen capture of someone using the app and they move through things way too fast with too little explanation. Better than nothing I guess but only just.


    Brian
     
  17. Tubbyengineer

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    I haven't actually tried the waypoints yet but got the impression that camera angles were included from this vid...
     
  18. Ralph thompson

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    As a Montrealer, I can't imagines TC would even consider an SFOC for flying around Joes place. It's simply illegal for many reasons. But to add to the thread, ground level is irrelevant. Trees, power lines, flag poles, roof top and standalone antenna are a much bigger issue.
     
  19. egoldy

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    Brian - You're a tough guy to satisfy. Can you point to a $30 piece of software in any industry that provides hours and hours of free videos to explain how to use that piece of software? Particularly one like this where the person making the videos needs to pull footage from the camera, the screen, externally, etc. and overlay voice over, graphics, bullets, etc.. Litchi offers a paid course which is a decent way to learn that software as well. FPV Camera is relatively straight forward - less complex, but easier to learn. Trust me, making these type of videos is not easy and it's a great deal of work.

    As the guy who has done the Autopilot videos, I've continued to try and balance showing people how to do things with making the videos so long that nobody will watch them. I also started to do some "Autopilot 123" videos which walked people through the steps to do simpler tasks - step by step. They were well received and I've wanted to do more, but I do these videos on the side. Doing these videos is an issue of time and cost and overall reward for the userbase. If you have any other constructive feedback and suggestions - I'm willing to listen. But realize that this IS a $30 software package that does MANY things - and it's hard to satisfy everyone.

    I've seen similar complaints from you about the UI for the software. Autopilot does MANY things - and thus the UI needs to be more than a few buttons. If you just want to fly manually, the DJI app is fine. I honestly use it when I just want to capture a few images or video all the time.

    However, the reason why there are thousands of users of Autopilot is because it CAN do so much. Is the UI perfect for all? Maybe not. Honestly, I find Photoshop very annoying at times. I liked Outlook 2010 more than 2013 and find it aggravating to re-learn where things used to be.. But, I do it.. And, after using the software for a while, things tend to make sense.

    Bottom line, my advice is (and this is for any of the software packages out there) to watch a few videos and then fly and try and do some of the things in the video. If something isn't clear, read the documentation and try until you get comfortable with it. Then expand and try and do more.

    Tongue in cheek, worst case, you're welcome to try and create your own version of FPV Camera / Autopilot / Litchi. You can then create your own videos and maybe you can change the industry.

    While we want everyone to love the videos and the software, sometimes that's just not possible..
     
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  20. RaptorMan

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    Yes, I can be a hard ass! :p

    As an example of the little things missing in these training videos and I alluded to it before is that once you have a mission programmed and ready to go you first take off (I don't use automation to take off) then switch to F-mode, then bring up autopilot then ... what? The videos I've seen don't really show what you have to select to actually start the mission. I had to fumble through numerous menus and eventually found it but there was nothing intuitive about it. The videos just assume you know this and focus on other things.

    I understand that part of the problem is that there are a lot of things to know and be aware of and all of that puts a pretty high floor to what you need to know to operate it. That much is not only understandable but understood, but because of this intrinsic complexity it is incumbent on the programmers to avoid adding complexity where it is not needed. So, things like opening and closing, mission creation and mission starting should be as intuitive as possible -- it is anything but!

    The comment about me being welcome to create my own app is a bit snarky...


    Brian