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Inspire 1 T600 vs T601 SOLVED - EUROPE CHILL OUT PLEASE

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by The Drone Factory, Feb 11, 2016.

  1. The Drone Factory

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    Ok, so here is where there is a BIG misconception on the issue between the variance of Inspire 1s.
    We have T600, possibly T600-D and also T601.

    DJI Europe denies the existence of T601 in the European market, because this is TRUE

    HERE IS A PARTIALLY COMPLETE EXPLANATION

    The issue is DJI's lack of information, but this is so that it doesn't confuse the layman. Unfortunately, the confusion is even worse because they aren't explaining it correctly to anyone or making it clear. I will try to explain this to you all:

    First of all: PLEASE NOTE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN FCC AND CE
    CE
    means "Conformité Europeene" which means European Conformity in french and is set by the EU commission (this includes variants)
    FCC means "Federal Communications Commission" which essentially is the Conformity commission for the USA when it comes to communications

    The DJI website clearly states that the FCC compliance allows 5km range vs the CE compliance only allowing 3.5km. This clearly prooves there is a difference in the signal output power due to regulations set by either the FCC or CE.

    This is in fact due to the OUTPUT POWER restrictions in Europe (shown in dBm or mW) - AKA EIRP (effective isotropically radiated power)

    Basically the T601 IS ILLEGAL IN EUROPEAN STANDARDS if its running at 1000mw (30dBm)



    Why, you say?
    Well it's quite simple actually. In EUROPE, we are not allowed by law to have a 2.4Ghz frequency with the output power higher than 20dBm (aka 100mw).

    From what I hear, there are currently 2, or lets say 3 variances in Inspire 1 models out there at the minute:

    INSPIRE 1 2.0 & PRO
    - T600
    Operates 20dBm @ 2.4 Ghz (20dBm = 100mw)
    - T600-D
    Operates 24dBm @ 2.4 Ghz (24dBm = 250mw)
    - T601
    Operates 30dBm @ 2.4 Ghz (30dBm = 1000mw)

    EUROPEAN LIMIT IS 20dBm or 100mw

    Oh wait... so because the T600 is outputing 20dBm or 100mw, this means it's on the LEGAL LIMIT in EUROPE.

    The T601 is 30dBm or 1000mw which is ILLEGAL in Europe, therefore, it is not sold in the DJI Europe zone (and possibly Canada too).

    This means that DJI Europe are 100% correct when they say that there are no such thing as the T601 in the European Market.
    Ask the same question to DJI USA and you may get a different answer.

    I suspect that the CE1313 rating on the T601 sticker may indicate that if a US citizens comes to europe, it may conform when arriving in the EU. Don't hold my word for that as I can't confirm any of this - I do find it odd that CE1313 is on there. Either way, the T601 is useless in Europe due to the fact it's WAY TOO POWERFUL.

    Anywho, to all you Europeans freaking out because you think you are getting a bad deal, please all take a deep breath. DJI are only conforming to the rules our governments have agreed to restrict us with. All is good, DJI Europe are correct and you aren't loosing out on anything because we are already running on the fringe of legalities.

    FUN FACT: the higher the EIRP the less flight time you get. So please all enjoy your extra minute or two in the sky and don't let it get to you.

    UPDATE 1: You can find the difference between the T600 and T601 (Or should I say the WD6101410 vs the WD6101510)
    Direct PDF Link
    https://fccid.io/pdf.php?id=2432538

    The FCC Compliance website with all information relating to the Inspire 1 compliance test:
    FCC ID SS3-WM6101410 by SZ DJI TECHNOLOGY CO., LTD for DJI Inspire 1


    UPDATE 2: The T601 may actually be sold in parts of Europe, but due to the EU restrictions, it won't make any difference from the T600 as it will have to be capped at 100mw. If this is not the case, the drone is operating illegally.

    UPDATE 3: The European Commission have implemented a harmonisation for R&TTE in 2011. This means that 2.4Ghz should not be used in any member states with an output higher than 20dBm (100mw):
    http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2011:329:0010:0018:EN:PDF
    UPDATE 4:
    DJI has replied to us and has given an answer !!! See my post here:
    Inspire 1 T600 vs T601 SOLVED - EUROPE CHILL OUT PLEASE
     
    #1 The Drone Factory, Feb 11, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2016
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  2. unyks

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    Ok, let's say of the above is correct, how do you explain that DJI sells the T601 in Europe or at least in Germany? If they above is correct than they sell their stuff with the full knowledge to break the law with every sale they make. I don't think i got mine by accident, if i try to buy a TB48 the DJI-Shop says a delivery to Germany is not possible due to transport restrictions for such high powerful batteries (usually they ship only to business addresses).

    But nevermind, i don't care if i have an T600 or T601, i'm happy with it.

    Chris, proud owner of an T601 in Europe, sold directly by DJI
     
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  3. The Drone Factory

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    Then in that case, that is correct. Unless their firmware has a restriction to reduce the Output to 20dBm - then your drone is in fact operating at an illegal output level!

    In EU, there shouldn't be any difference between the T600 and T601 models, even if you own one. The reason is that even if the transmitter has a higher capacity for an Output level, you still won't be able to use it no matter what.
     
  4. The Editor

    The Editor Moderator
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    I think you will find that CE has nothing to do with transmission power whatsoever.
    This is regulated and controlled by OFCOM within the United Kingdom under the wireless telegraphy act 2006.
    2.4ghz fixed antenna transmitting devices are exempt from licence under the act and their EIRP is set by OFCOM (not Europe) depending on its use.

    CE conformity means nothing more than the equipment has deemed to pass a standard of low spurious rf emissions that could constitute and cause interference to other communication devices either in the same or adjacent band or by way of harmonic emission outside of the operating band.
     
  5. unyks

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    If T600 and T601 are the same it makes no sense that they register the T6101 just by fun at all the authorities around the world. Also, even if they handle the power output with the firmware we should see different version for at least different continents because it makes no sense to handle all the country settings in the firmware (just a guess). The only logic they could easily use are the country settings you gave em in the App. But what happens if you fly without a mobile device?

    I don't know dude, the more you think about the more no sense it makes ;-)
     
  6. unyks

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    Oh btw you should change the topic to:
    Inspire 1 T600 vs T601 NOT SOLVED - EUROPE CHILL OUT LATER PLEASE

    ;)
     
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  7. unyks

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    Or even they got the CE stamp just because the electrical part is safe to operate with and fulfills the european security standards.

    Chris
     
  8. The Editor

    The Editor Moderator
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    Correct!
    Additionally Europe (European Commision) has no authority to set an individual countries transmission power levels for either licenced or non-licenced equipment. That is for the member country to set and regulate.
     
  9. licensed pilot

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    WHAT???
     
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  10. Busch

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    lol you said what i would say :D
     
  11. The Drone Factory

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    Thanks for raising the confusion over CE. But I actually kindly disagree on this. The CE (Conformity Européenne) marking means that the product conforms to European Standard set by the European commission - and that holds many different parameters, in this case, it most probably will include R&TTE regulation implementation. The number found after CE designates the body involved in the conformity assessment (in accordance with European Legislation).

    The European Commission has a lot more power than people think, and it does actually affect countries (EC is the executive body of the European Union responsible for proposing legislation, implementing decisions according to their page). It can clearly implement decisions which have to be respected by all member countries within the Union.
    From the linked document found at the end of this post, you can see in their own words that they "harmonised" the european R&TTE standards through a Commission Implemented Decision. This means that OFCOM are merely regulating on behalf of this European Legislation. OFCOM did not set these standards but are enforcing them because the UK is a EU member state. Similar to the indoor smoking ban affecting all countries, and the seatbelt obligation for long-haul buses - both laws which are supposed to be respected by all member states.

    If you read the Official Journal of the European Union (the link I've posted), they released a document on 8th January December 2011 called:
    "COMMISSION IMPLEMENTING DECISION of 8 December 2011 amending Decision 2006/771/EC on harmonisation of the radio spectrum for use by short-range devices "

    They started by introducing themselves as:
    "The European Commission"

    They call for all member states to respect this implementation decision:
    "Having regard to Decision No 676/2002/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 7 March 2002 on a regulatory framework for radio spectrum policy in the European Community (Radio Spectrum Decision)(1), and in particular Article 4(3) thereof,...."

    And lo and behold, on the fourth page of the document, they have decided that for radio signals:
    "2 400–2 483,5 MHz must have a limit of 100 mW e.i.r.p. " is the limit.

    Here is the official document found here:
    http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2011:329:0010:0018:EN:PDF

    Therefore, it would appear that the European Union state members have been given an implementation by the European Commission to harmonise the R&TTE rules - Meaning that if you are anywhere within the European Union must not use an EIRP more than 100mw (20 dBm) in wide-band equipment with a frequency of 2.4Ghz. And this would mean that although the T601 may have a higher capacity capability for the output power in other countries (such as the USA), they must still be all be limited 100mw in the EU.
    What would this mean?
    If DJI have set the limits correctly in their firmware / hardware for the EU stock, there should be no difference between the T600 and T601, at least legally, in Europe.

    Perhaps DJI made a mistake, rolled them out and let people use them at more than 100mw. They could be covering up the mistake not to get their CE conformity tag removed and the products took off the shelves and this is why they are so silent. The EU have been pretty harsh in the passed when states / companies have broken their regulations.
    I've read somewhere about firmware being released to"fix" the difference problem anyways.

    In case people don't know, DJI do have EU specific stock. Perhaps it's not a different build model, but it's in the packaging and software (DJI GO app) which adds variations from each country. This is how they void grey good warranties when importing cheaper ones form china, in order to keep their dealers in a fair market.


    Conclusion - The Gist - The important part of all this rambling:

    According to the European Commission, State members of the EU must regulate the operation of Radio telecommunications for the 2.4Ghz wide-band at a maximum output of 20dBm (100mw)
    The T600 was tested to go up to 250mw (24dbm) but is limited to 100mw in Europe.
    The T601 was tested to go up to 1000mw (30dmb) but is limited to 100mw in Europe.

    If you live in the EU and own a T601, then you should find no difference between it and the T600 if the drone conforms to legal standards.
    Why they have released the T601 with the capacity for 30dBm, I don't know.

    But either way, the model variation shouldn't affect transmission power and clarity Europe because of the limit of 100mw (20dBm).
     
  12. damoncooper

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    Oh good. YATAT (yet another thread about T600/T601). :)
     
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  13. The Drone Factory

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    Yes, I see what you mean, but I didn't say that the T601 or T600 are the same as far as hardware goes. As written in my post just above:

    The T600 was tested to go up to 250mw (24dbm) but is limited to 100mw in Europe.
    The T601 was tested to go up to 1000mw (30dmb) but is limited to 100mw in Europe.

    So the T601 - May have the capacity of having a better output power and more range. But It can't use this capability due to the EU restrictions found here:
    http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2011:329:0010:0018:EN:PDF

    So either way, both models end up with the same restrictions. I'm not sure how they implement entirely the different restrictions. I've read around forums and places that a mix between the firmware, geo-location and even the DJI GO app is the answer.

    Having a different model per region would mean that you would need an entirely new drone to, lets say, fly your US Inspire 1 in Europe. If it couldn't cap your Power Output via firmware or any other way, you would have to purchase an EU Inspire 1 to fly there.

    I'm also guessing it's a money thing. It's easier making a product that is flexible across nations just by making a change in the code rather than having an entire new range of the same model, built specifically to cater one restrictive region in the world. Plus people would have to own multiple versions of the Inspire 1 to operate in different places... what a pain.
     
  14. The Editor

    The Editor Moderator
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    You're probably right - I stand corrected. :)
    I'm afraid being an old radio ham I do not conform to anything Europe tells me, I only answer to OFCOM (ex Home Office) and the CE rubbish doesn't apply to Amatuer Radio equipment in any case.
    Unfortunately, presently we are still part of the European Union and so we dance to the EuroCretins tune on so many things.:rolleyes: Don't forget there is no 'European Law' as such, it is mearly a bunch of treaties drawn up which then have to be ratified into each member states legal system.

    Anyhoo, the 2.4ghz 100/20dBm limit has been around for a while and I can't see it changing anytime soon.

    Thanks for the clarification on CE certification
     
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  15. Mad_angler1

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    Just for clarification the T601 may be limited to 16dbm in CE not 20,

    In early 2015 the regulations changed and only full FHSS compliant radio can use full 100mw power, anything not fully compliant gets a reduced output based on certain requirements.

    LB is not fully compliant as video does not constantly channel hop, it can shift if interference is detected but it chooses a clear channel at startup and sits there until it has a reason to move, this means the craft is not FHSS compliant and under the 2015 amendments it can no longer qualify for the full 20dbm output in CE

    As the T600 was certified prior to this its able to use the full 20dbm as it always has as per it's I initial release but the P3 could not and was limited to 16dbm, there was a whole load of noise at the time around this as well.

    As the T601 was released well after these new regs came in as well it would also have to have the reduced output I would think.

    So in CE a T600 should have 4 more db than a T601.

    It would make sense for DJI to choose to ship the T600 to CE regions to get around these rules

    So the T601 it's not all that



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    #15 Mad_angler1, Feb 12, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2016
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  16. huppe

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    I really hope that the U.K will vote for a Brexit(but I'm afraid that this won't happen).That will be a good "shake up" and hope that my country will follow(again afraid that this won't happen).
    Those EU regulations are way too much.
     
  17. The Editor

    The Editor Moderator
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    Don't want to get political but I'm afraid you are probably right - even if the vote goes as "Get Out" it will be manipulated to a "Stay In" :rolleyes:
     
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  18. damoncooper

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    You guys should just join the US
     
    #18 damoncooper, Feb 12, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2016
  19. Michael Morris

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    Neither is this post political, but there is a track record of Europe forcing member states to vote again and again until it eventually conforms with the EU Commission's position...lol
     
  20. Inspire751874

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    Has anyone posted a guarenteed way of ensuring you buy a v2 T601 in the USA? I live in the USA and am debating whether or not to buy an Inspire. If I do how would I have the reseller confirm before shipment that it is in fact a T601 with the 1000mw capability?