Welcome to InspirePilots.com

Join the leading DJI Inspire community for free!

Intelligent flight batteries, are really stupid

Discussion in 'Inspire 1 Discussion' started by Yiannis.B, Jul 25, 2016.

  1. Yiannis.B

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2016
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    11
    Location:
    Athens - Greece
    Received my new Inspire 1 V2 during the weekend, only to find out that the battrey was dead.

    I did all the tricks trying to make it work with no success.

    1. Measured charger output voltage, and it is O.K.
    2. Removed the white cup and measured directly to the cells = 0,8 Vdc.
    3. Removed balanced connector, wait for an hour, put it back, nothing.
    4. Charged the cells with a lab power supply at 1 A constant current until battery voltage reached 20,1 Volts. (Since that was not a balanced charging, I kept max DC voltage lower than 25,2 Volts (nominal battery voltage).
    5. Reconnected the balanced cable and now reports fully charged (all 4 leds on)
    6. Instaled it on the aircraft, and as you turn on the battery, it powers just for 1 sec the aircraft and turns off.

    Looking at how DJI implemented the smart battery, it realy looks stupid:

    The power supply to the board comes directly from the battery (through the balanced connector). So when the battery deeply discharged, no supply to the board! There is NO alternative path, to supply the board through the main plus and minus pins that connects to the charger. So you cannot power up the board when you connect the charger, to initialize charging (There is a FET switch on the board to allow connecting minus pole to the LiPo cells) . o_O

    [​IMG]

    Check also on Amazon, how many people ordered a dead battery, that they cannot recover.

    These guys are a joke. - They cannot even supply a communication port on the board to allow troubleshooting / firmware upgrade, without the cells.

    (Sorry for my english - it is not my native language - and thank you all for the great stuff I read on this forum)
     
    #1 Yiannis.B, Jul 25, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2016
    John Archer likes this.
  2. IrishSights

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2014
    Messages:
    2,015
    Likes Received:
    487
    Location:
    Bangor, Northern Ireland, UK
    Just for clarity, how are you turning it on?


    Holder of CAA PFAW
    BNUS-S Certified Pilot
     
  3. Yiannis.B

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2016
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    11
    Location:
    Athens - Greece
    After the charging that I did with the lab power supply, I can turn on the battery. If I keep pressed the power on button, I have no error code. (all 4 leds are steady on).

    Then I switch off the battery and install it on the Inspire. I switch on the battery and I can see the tail light of the aircraft to turn on (and the usual noices during initialization), but after that the battery switches off.
     
    John Archer likes this.
  4. IrishSights

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2014
    Messages:
    2,015
    Likes Received:
    487
    Location:
    Bangor, Northern Ireland, UK
    Again no offence intended but just trying to clarify, are you switching it on by quick press-long press?
     
    Yiannis.B likes this.
  5. IrishSights

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2014
    Messages:
    2,015
    Likes Received:
    487
    Location:
    Bangor, Northern Ireland, UK
    If it still does not switch on, go back to dealer or contact DJI directly. There has been a spat of DOA batteries and DJI are sympathetic.
     
    Yiannis.B likes this.
  6. Yiannis.B

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2016
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    11
    Location:
    Athens - Greece
    Yes that is the way. - And thank you trying to help. :)

    Although I have already opened the battery I will give it a try. (to be changed under warranty).

    However, I still think that is a major harware flow, in how these batteries are made (you cannot power the board via the charger).

    I would prefer a different approach:

    Split the intelligent flight battery in 2 parts.
    One part would be the cells (the wear-out part) + memory to save battery data (S/N, authentication code, charge cycles, error codes).
    The second part would be the intelligent electronic board, that you can also power, communicate and upgrade autonomous.
    Then you will have the same amount of batteries and electronic boards, in order to have the autonomous discharge feature when batteries are being in storage mode.

    Benefits:

    -You will only buy the cells in half the cost -(probably.)
    - You could upgrade the electronic board autonomus, so if something goes wrong, you could switch another board to the cells and have a fully functional battery.
    - You could upgrade only the board in case of a newer hardware revision, not despose the cells.
     
    #6 Yiannis.B, Jul 25, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2016
    PacoSaiso and John Archer like this.
  7. Kilrah

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2015
    Messages:
    1,882
    Likes Received:
    732
    Why would you do that? The battery is obviously not charged at this point, now that it's charged enopugh for the board to power up I'd put it on the DJI charger and give it a full charge, that should recalibrate the sensors.

    BUT the design is intentional for safety. In normal cases the battery should never discharge itself below threshold, I have 3 I1 batteries that have stayed unused for 6 months and haven't drained. BUT if they did and like yours went down to 0.8V/cell then they should NOT be used again especially by the average customer who's got no idea of the dangers. The way it is to require sending them back for verification/replacement is perfectly appropriate.
     
  8. Yiannis.B

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2016
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    11
    Location:
    Athens - Greece
    Because :

    1. The Inspire just received during the weekend, I had only one battery, and I want at least to SEE the f@cking thing moving in landing position. :eek: (I have seeing only videos about that) :p
    2. I am not sure if I can find any dealer in my area to buy a spare one. (Hopefully I have already found the only store that has stock, and is willing to test the batteries BEFORE I pay for them)
    3. For some people that they have tried this procedure, it did work.

    Well, do you really believe that what happened to my case, was a design feature, added for safety reasons? :rolleyes:

    If DJI wants to intergrate these kind of features would do as follows:

    Even if the battery was completely drained, when I would put the charger on, the board would wake up, measure the cell voltages and throw an error code: PLEASE DISPOSE. So simple.
    BUT it can NOT do that, because the board cannot power up directly from the charger input.

    Do you think the battery (or the scenario that you discribe as DJI-intentional) is intelligent enought?

    Last, DJI is not mentioning in their manuals (please correct me if I am wrong), that you have to recharge your batteries after XX months of storage, in order to avoid that kind of problems.

    http://dl.djicdn.com/downloads/insp...gent_Flight_Battery_Safety_Guidelines_1.4.pdf

    [​IMG]
    EDIT. In the last point I was wrong because it says the following:

    [​IMG]
     
    #8 Yiannis.B, Jul 25, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2016
  9. nub

    nub

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2016
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    1
    the batteries are a con!

    £180 for a poor quality 6S 10C battery with some electronics to protect it from popping because it's cheap and nasty!
     
    Yiannis.B likes this.
  10. IrishSights

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2014
    Messages:
    2,015
    Likes Received:
    487
    Location:
    Bangor, Northern Ireland, UK
    They are what they are! There are no alternatives so you cannot be conned. Expensive? Yes! They have been more or less the same price since they came out. Complaining here about them will not do any good. Get out there, fly 'em and enjoy life!

    Oh and BTW I have never paid anywhere near that for any of my 6 batteries.
     
  11. Yiannis.B

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2016
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    11
    Location:
    Athens - Greece
    When I first show Inspire, it was like a work of H.R. Ginger.

    It was the first copter that was mean and sexy. :rolleyes:

    H.R. giger - Αναζήτηση Google

    [​IMG]

    All the others look like flying soup plates (some they paint them black, but I can see the trick) :cool:

    However, we are not on this forum, only to share the bright side of life.

    People have problems with these machines, and need to communicate their findings, their solutions (or not) and their anger. They can also blame DJI as they wish.

    I like it. ;)

    P.S, 2 new TB48 arrived, tested (on the shop floor), charged and power the aircraft. (-460 Euros :rolleyes: :mad: :D)
     
    #11 Yiannis.B, Jul 25, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2016
  12. IrishSights

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2014
    Messages:
    2,015
    Likes Received:
    487
    Location:
    Bangor, Northern Ireland, UK
    Most of us here have gripes about DJI one way or other, including me. We are under no illusions about these batteries.

    This forums purpose is primarily for help and discussion in an amicable and constructive way. Communicating anger as you said is your right, as is my right to say DJI batteries are what they are and gurning here about them is not constructive and will not change a thing.

    We all know they are the weak link in the chain and wish they were better. Others for example like @damoncooper and others have taken the initiative and taken constructive steps to add redundancy and 30min flight times by innovation and experimentation. The spirit of that thread is an example of what this forum can facilitate and what it is all about.

    Constant whingers go on my ignore list.
     
    #12 IrishSights, Jul 25, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2016
    DStew likes this.
  13. Yiannis.B

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2016
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    11
    Location:
    Athens - Greece
    That is all about. To take the initiative.

    Actually my first post has some info, about what needs to be improved. The sad thing is that there is not yet a response, on this thread, about am I right, am I wrong, regarding the technical staff.
    If that was not a very expensive drone, but some kind of consumer product with a lot of sales, a lot of individuals would try to find ways to overcome weak points of the design - especially on the software side.
    Drone research is just booming at the moment. DJI was clever enough to be from the first on the market, and has no real competitors right now. I hope to have in the future.

    DJI advertises P4 as the first drone with visual-based, obstacle avoidance technology. It is not something innovative in my view. Just the other companies are sleeping. But not for long.

     
    #13 Yiannis.B, Jul 25, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2016
  14. Dave Armbrust

    Joined:
    May 27, 2016
    Messages:
    231
    Likes Received:
    102
    Rather than redesigning the intelligent battery would it not be a lot faster and more effective to fix the bug in the battery firmware and distribute it to the field in the form of a firmware update?

    Their design is far superior than the traditional approach of a simple battery lead and putting the intelligence in the charger. With their design it constantly can monitor and control the battery, extending the battery life and keeping them safer than the traditional approach,

    Yes, there was a firmware bug. Yes, it has been fixed. But the owner operator has to be smart enough to download and install the update. Unfortunately DJI overestimated the intelligence of some our owner/operators.
     
  15. Mad_angler1

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2015
    Messages:
    454
    Likes Received:
    174
    Where did you get the craft ?

    This is only an issue with outlets holding old stock, I'm still surprised at people spending this kind of money and just buying from random places, DJI have made all official dealers aware of the issue and this can only be happening when the packs are stores for 3 months or more and it likely needs a lot longer than that.

    You can tell how old the packs are as the new ones have different labels for new legislation, the new packs have been around about 3 months.

    Buy your product from Authorised dealers and it should not be an issue, my new inspire came today directly from DJI and was at 2 solid LED's.

    Also note I have just ordered another TB48 from Vodafone eBay store for £156 free postage so deals can be had.

    Not exactly sure why Vodafone are selling Inspire Batteries though
     
  16. IrishSights

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2014
    Messages:
    2,015
    Likes Received:
    487
    Location:
    Bangor, Northern Ireland, UK
    Vodaphone EBay are ok, I have bought quite a few from them. Not sure it is 'the' Vodaphone though.


    Holder of CAA PFAW
    BNUS-S Certified Pilot
     
  17. Mad_angler1

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2015
    Messages:
    454
    Likes Received:
    174
    Yea it's odd

    It's appears to be a marketing thing

    About Us

    The Vodafonestore is run by Kondor Ltd on behalf of Vodafone

    Kondor is a global channel partner and distributor of consumer electronic accessories into high street retail, online, mass merchant and B2C. We do more than just logistics: we offer a comprehensive range of services to partners around the world.

    Kondor doesn’t just partner with amazing brands and retailers from all over the world. We also offer a complete range of channel boosting services to meet your business aspirations.

    Anyhow off to calibrate the new baby.
     
  18. Yiannis.B

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2016
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    11
    Location:
    Athens - Greece
    So you are suggesting authorized dealers, and you bought your battery via Vodafone eBay, because it was cheaper than authorized dealers, or out of stock. :rolleyes:


    :D
     
  19. Mad_angler1

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2015
    Messages:
    454
    Likes Received:
    174
    I stated craft ;)

    And secondly I have used them before with out issue.
     
  20. Yiannis.B

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2016
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    11
    Location:
    Athens - Greece
    Anything that is sold on Europe, has at least 1 year warranty. Enough with authorized dealers. Especially when authorized dealers have nothing in stock and charge more that other stores.
    Do I need a dealer for my new washing machine? Air condition? What ever.
    Why DJI is an exception? Because it makes less reliable products than washing machine manufactures?
    As a consumer I know my rights, and I had always found my way around, with defective products.

    In fact, I bought it from an authorized dealer. ;)

    I do not know the rules of the forum, and named the dealer. - and the message stack for moderator approval. No big deal not mentioning them, since this is NOT my point. (To harm the business of a dealer.)

    So how we can tell that the dealers are more reliable, as you mention below? Are you still surprised ? (The other way around, I mean. :D).

    P.S. I have not contacted the seller yet, so I have negative feedback only from the fact that he should be aware of dead batteries.
    Note also that the cardboard was sealed, and have some stickers from DJI, in order customer to not accept an opened cardboard.
    Perhaps when I contact seller, there willing to help. (The situation is complicated, because as I mentioned before, I have already opened the battery).

    If an authorized dealer in this site, can share if DJI contacted them to open the boxes, replace the defective batteries, and then send the drones to the customers, please reply here.
     
    #20 Yiannis.B, Aug 3, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2016