Irrational fear?

[Ezookiel]

For what do I have the battery capacity when I cannot use it? I often return before 30% but if I need it I also return under 20%.

You have to think differently. You don't actually have that 30%. That last 30% isn't fuel you have that is being wasted, that is what the battery needs to have left behind to remain healthy simply based on the composition of a Lipo battery. You need to stop thinking of it as power that you're not getting to use when you should be able to, and see it as the battery's equivalent of the Empty mark.

Look at your power as being that top 70% only, and treat 40% as getting low, and 30% as empty, and only go below it in truly extenuating circumstances.

As for biting the bullet and buying such an expensive item, all I can say is JUST DO IT!!!
I put it off for so long for exactly the same reasons as you, and I'm so very glad that my hand got pushed by an aerial photography company wanting to give me work, but needed me to have an Inspire as the minimum. It meant I had to upgrade, and I've been so glad I did, because my previous unit was a P2 in FPV setup, so no app, no flight records, no camera control in flight, and I thought I loved it, but it took all of one flight on the Inspire to cause me to switch my loyalties immediately to it. I've not flown the P2 ever since.

 

[shockwave199]

PH3 is as stable as the inspire 1 even in high winds. Cool price too!

I do not want to start a debate on these two quad except that the price not worth it.

I find it hard to believe the P3 is as stable in high winds. From all my investigating between these two birds, the P3 gets pushed around a lot more. If it didn't, I'd consider saving money and just get a P3. But I need to power through high winds sometimes, upwards of 15 to 18mph and pushing it at 20 when absolutely necessary. And I don't need legs getting in the shot for the effort either. The Inspire is still at the top of my list for my next bird.

 

[gregdd]

You have to think differently. You don't actually have that 30%. That last 30% isn't fuel you have that is being wasted, that is what the battery needs to have left behind to remain healthy simply based on the composition of a Lipo battery. You need to stop thinking of it as power that you're not getting to use when you should be able to, and see it as the battery's equivalent of the Empty mark.

Look at your power as being that top 70% only, and treat 40% as getting low, and 30% as empty, and only go below it in truly extenuating circumstances.

As for biting the bullet and buying such an expensive item, all I can say is JUST DO IT!!!
I put it off for so long for exactly the same reasons as you, and I'm so very glad that my hand got pushed by an aerial photography company wanting to give me work, but needed me to have an Inspire as the minimum. It meant I had to upgrade, and I've been so glad I did, because my previous unit was a P2 in FPV setup, so no app, no flight records, no camera control in flight, and I thought I loved it, but it took all of one flight on the Inspire to cause me to switch my loyalties immediately to it. I've not flown the P2 ever since.

"You dont actually have that 30%" Are you just making stuff up now? Where did you read that?

I have been flying my batteries to 10% since i got it and not an issue with any of the 4 batteries.
I have read that 0% is not actually 0% and the battery retains what it needs to keep the battery in good condition.

 

[FangsCPO]

I find it hard to believe the P3 is as stable in high winds. From all my investigating between these two birds, the P3 gets pushed around a lot more. If it didn't, I'd consider saving money and just get a P3. But I need to power through high winds sometimes, upwards of 15 to 18mph and pushing it at 20 when absolutely necessary. And I don't need legs getting in the shot for the effort either. The Inspire is still at the top of my list for my next bird.

I can't believe the P3 is as stable as the Inspire 1 in high winds. I'd have to see it in a video comparison to believe that statement.

 

[Ezookiel]

"You dont actually have that 30%" Are you just making stuff up now? Where did you read that?

I have been flying my batteries to 10% since i got it and not an issue with any of the 4 batteries.
I have read that 0% is not actually 0% and the battery retains what it needs to keep the battery in good condition.

One entire segment of our UAV Controllers Certification is on LiPo batteries.
Go have a look at the discharge curve on a LiPo battery and tell me that 10% is a smart idea.
The drop off of power on LiPo gets very very steep at the tail end. That last 10% will go down to zero extremely fast compared to the first 10%. If you're still in the air at 10% then you better be well on your way to being back on the ground.

The discharge curve is so steep at the tail end, that 20% is actually the advised point at which to be back on the ground. Hence 30% should be considered as your low fuel warning light, as it gives you some time to get back and safely down without risking long term damage to the batteries or having the bird shut down while still in the air. There's a reason DJI pick that as the default setting. It's not some figure they pulled out of their heads for the hell of.it. They're trying to protect people from themselves.

Yeah, you'll fly down to 10% without problems lots and lots of times, and may never have a problem ever, but with the new camera I'll have close to $10k in the air, and personally I have no intention of joining those who later cry "it just shut down and fell from the sky" after they've pushed their batteries far beyond what is recommended by battery manufacturers. LiPo should never be discharged that far. At several hundred dollars per battery, I prefer to protect mine in every way possible - they are the only thing holding that money up in the air.

 

[JoffaDan]

PH3 is as stable as the inspire 1 even in high winds. Cool price too!

I do not want to start a debate on these two quad except that the price not worth it.

That is a terribly misinformed comment.

I own both and can say the P3 doesn't hold a light to the Inspire in terms of stability especially in high winds.

I travelled 2000km (2 flights and a couple hours of driving) for a job with my inspire. When I arrived the winds were 40km/h gusting to 55km/h. No chance I would have flown the P3 in such conditions. The Inspire handled it like a champ, and basically paid for itself.

Here is the best advice I have for you oldblue, if you can't afford a catastrophic loss (and if such event would cause financial hardship) don't buy an inspire. I've had the same theory with all the quads/hex's/octo's I've built over the years. Upon every bird leaving the ground, I'm prepared for the fact that it may be the last time I see it. If you can deal with that, go for it!

 

[SultanGris]

That is a terribly misinformed comment.

I own both and can say the P3 doesn't hold a light to the Inspire in terms of stability especially in high winds.

I travelled 2000km (2 flights and a couple hours of driving) for a job with my inspire. When I arrived the winds were 40km/h gusting to 55km/h. No chance I would have flown the P3 in such conditions. The Inspire handled it like a champ, and basically paid for itself.

Here is the best advice I have for you oldblue, if you can't afford a catastrophic loss (and if such event would cause financial hardship) don't buy an inspire. I've had the same theory with all the quads/hex's/octo's I've built over the years. Upon every bird leaving the ground, I'm prepared for the fact that it may be the last time I see it. If you can deal with that, go for it!

assuming its no different flying than the p2v+ it actually handles wind quite well, the downside being top speed is gps limited to 30mph which can be a problem in winds. Switching to atti mode will gain you top speed of around 48mph and the ability to fight wind much better.

I noticed my p2v+ RTH landing feature is much less accurate than the inspire, around 20 feet from the mark vs inspires 5-10 feet and that coupled with the slower response/reaction time of the phantom could very well make it less stable in wind than the inspire but it doesnt make it unable to fly in wind by any means. Its still a quite capable machine when you understand the differences and what it can actually do.

I would say the inspire might be a little better due to the larger size, faster gps speed, swiveling camera and raising landing gear but in the right hands a phantom 3 will be able to do nearly everything the inspire can. Whos really shooting much in wind anyway? most people with inspires are scared of wind also, so its not likely a major factor to many people. I personally never swivel my camera anyway, its much easier for a single remote pilot to simply turn the whole drone and keep the camera pointed to the front flying sideways to maintain the shot. The phantom has the advantage of longer flight times on a battery, smaller lighter size being easier to transport and the ability to take a crash. Ive dumped the phantom 2v+ hard a few times with zero damage other than props, while the inspire in even a light crash will destroy your camera and likely break an arm resulting in an easy $1000 worth of damage. Things to consider, especially if cost is a factor. I do like the inspire, but its not without its faults as well.

 

[JoffaDan]

Who's really shooting much in wind anyway? most people with inspires are scared of wind also, so its not likely a major factor to many people. .

Me.

That was kind of the point of my story. Sometimes I have to travel very long distances for a shoot (at the expense of the client), and weather here can be very unpredictable. Knowing that I can fly in very high winds, gives me piece of mind that I can complete the job as promised. This fact alone is worth paying 3x as much for the inspire.

Having said that, you are correct in saying the P3 is a very capable platform and in the right hands/conditions is able to produce footage almost on par with I1 . But I see it being more suited to hobbyists rather than people relying on it for work.

 

[SultanGris]

Me.

That was kind of the point of my story. Sometimes I have to travel very long distances for a shoot (at the expense of the client), and weather here can be very unpredictable. Knowing that I can fly in very high winds, gives me piece of mind that I can complete the job as promised. This fact alone is worth paying 3x as much for the inspire.

Having said that, you are correct in saying the P3 is a very capable platform and in the right hands/conditions is able to produce footage almost on par with I1 . But I see it being more suited to hobbyists rather than people relying on it for work.

fair enough, i was just relaying my experiences. I thought the p3 and i1 have the same camera specs and flight distance capabilities? I wouldnt really consider the inspire any more professional than the p3 if cameras are the same quality, given the fact the p3 has follow me and ground station while the inspire doesnt some might even consider the p3 to be more professional, but as far as im concerned they are both pretty hobbyist level devices with all the nanny features and sub par camera quality. They can both be used for some professional type stuff however, so to each their own. It just seems lots of inspire owner think they are at the top echelon of professionalism just cause they have an inspire and that couldnt be farther from the truth, lol! They may go up a notch with the new better camera coming out but still as far as cameras go i think they could do better. I was very saddened and disappointed to learn that my cell phone takes better quality stills than the current inspire 1 camera, I think they could/should do better for a 3K device, im not necessarily looking for dslr quality but at least equal to current cell phone camera quality or preferably better isnt unreasonable to expect i dont think, do you?

 

[JoffaDan]

Yes same spec camera but that's nothing to do with how I rate it's professional value. Having the ability to operate that camera with dual operators and at 360 degree view (without props in every second shot) is how I think it sets itself apart. Telling a director "I need to do that shot again because the props were in view, or the subject wasn't lined up properly", isn't acceptable and doesn't happen with a good camera operator.

I have never used follow me on my P3, I'm certainly not going to use it on my inspire, even if it were available. I just don't have a requirement for what I do so I can't comment on that.

I'm under no illusion there are far more "professional" setups than the I1, with better camera quality, but you're going to be spending a bit more cash (on say a GH4) and a hex/octo powerful enough to carry it. Plus then you have the build time.

But then again, when the X5r is released, all of these platforms will be made redundant too. And the Inspire will be capable of producing as professional images as anything available right now. Providing DJI deliver on their promises and specs of course, which is anyone's guess as we all know.

Will let you know when mine arrives, won't be strapping it to my P3 though, that's for sure!

 

[shockwave199]

There's been some great posts in this thread. Thanks for that, as I too have been grappling with the decision between the P3 and inspire. I don't think my needs are too unusual, but there are a lot of times when wind up to 15 to 18 mph is a factor, especially at 350-400' up. I've been managing well with a Q500 for all of the work I've been doing this year. But one time it was just too windy for it and really pushed it around. I've since been very cautious about choosing what event to fly or not in regard to wind speed and although I would do the same for any bird, I really kind of need to be prepared to push through and deliver for close call situations. If I say no too much because of it, I won't continue to be considered for the work. Add to that, long flight times are a consideration too. I was hoping a tb48 would give me a solid 18 or so minutes on a regular basis. My flights are very modest- hovering and slow flight. The Inspire is easier to keep an eye on up there too I'm sure. I really need the power of the Inspire and the flight times of the P3. My answer may be to own both, each for their strengths for a given flight. Finances aren't there yet. Tough call at the moment. Still mulling.

 

[SultanGris]

fair points, its not impossible to get phantom footage without props in the shot, but it certainly can be more likely to occur. Ive never used the dual remote setup and think its much easier as a single operator to get the shot i want without relying on someone else flying where i want/expect them too. seems like dual operators would be more likely to cause problems than help but i could be wrong. I know it would be much harder for me to effectively pilot the inspire if i wasnt controlling the camera and had no idea which way it was moving and when it was doing so as i find the live feed very helpful to maintain distance/direction from the target.

Saw a youtube video of a guy testing the dual remote features attempting to orbit a tower which he promptly crashed into and destroyed the inspire cause he couldnt judge distance/direction of flight in relation to camera very well, lol! I spose with some practice it could be achieved on targets close to you, but I dont see how it would work very good on moving targets 1/4mile or farther away, but who knows, never tried it, might be easier than i think. I like to leave the camera centered and turn the whole drone instead. The beauty of the quad platform is that you arent limited to forward flight, you can just as easily fly sideways/backwards or whatever so i dont really consider the full swivel camera to be a major plus. in fact in my testing its still quite possible to get the inspires props in the shot as well depending on where youre pointing the camera in relation to the front of the drone and how youre flying.

 

[SultanGris]

There's been some great posts in this thread. Thanks for that, as I too have been grappling with the decision between the P3 and inspire. I don't think my needs are too unusual, but there are a lot of times when wind up to 15 to 18 mph is a factor, especially at 350-400' up. I've been managing well with a Q500 for all of the work I've been doing this year. But one time it was just too windy for it and really pushed it around. I've since been very cautious about choosing what event to fly or not in regard to wind speed and although I would do the same for any bird, I really kind of need to be prepared to push through and deliver for close call situations. If I say no too much because of it, I won't continue to be considered for the work. Add to that, long flight times are a consideration too. I was hoping a tb48 would give me a solid 18 or so minutes on a regular basis. My flights are very modest- hovering and slow flight. The Inspire is easier to keep an eye on up there too I'm sure. I really need the power of the Inspire and the flight times of the P3. My answer may be to own both, each for their strengths for a given flight. Finances aren't there yet. Tough call at the moment. Still mulling.

FWIW the best ive gotten out of a tb48 is 16 minutes, but i land around 20-30% battery left and often do some full speed flying. Might eek out a few more minutes if you are just hovering in a no wind situation and take it down to 10% battery left. My tb47s are around 12-13 min at best to the same 20-30% range. Not many posts on it but most people seem to be getting similar results.

Unsure of the p2v+ to p3 changes or what the p3 gets as i dont have and never used a p3 but i was getting 20-25 min with the p2. Im pretty sure they are using different batteries and the dji spec sheets give the p2 25 min and the p3 23 minutes, but they also give the inspire 18 min with a tb47 so im not sure how much you can believe those numbers for the p3.

 

[JoffaDan]

fair points, its not impossible to get phantom footage without props in the shot, but it certainly can be more likely to occur. Ive never used the dual remote setup and think its much easier as a single operator to get the shot i want without relying on someone else flying where i want/expect them too. seems like dual operators would be more likely to cause problems than help but i could be wrong. I know it would be much harder for me to effectively pilot the inspire if i wasnt controlling the camera and had no idea which way it was moving and when it was doing so as i find the live feed very helpful to maintain distance/direction from the target.

Saw a youtube video of a guy testing the dual remote features attempting to orbit a tower which he promptly crashed into and destroyed the inspire cause he couldnt judge distance/direction of flight in relation to camera very well, lol! I spose with some practice it could be achieved on targets close to you, but I dont see how it would work very good on moving targets 1/4mile or farther away, but who knows, never tried it, might be easier than i think. I like to leave the camera centered and turn the whole drone instead. The beauty of the quad platform is that you arent limited to forward flight, you can just as easily fly sideways/backwards or whatever so i dont really consider the full swivel camera to be a major plus. in fact in my testing its still quite possible to get the inspires props in the shot as well depending on where youre pointing the camera in relation to the front of the drone and how youre flying.

I agree, that's the beauty of these quads, they make it easy for single operators too. Although, some amazing shots can be had with dual operators who know what they're doing. A second 5.8Ghz tx connected to fpv cam and some goggles turns the inspire into a pretty nice simple dual setup.

 

[JoffaDan]

There's been some great posts in this thread. Thanks for that, as I too have been grappling with the decision between the P3 and inspire. I don't think my needs are too unusual, but there are a lot of times when wind up to 15 to 18 mph is a factor, especially at 350-400' up. I've been managing well with a Q500 for all of the work I've been doing this year. But one time it was just too windy for it and really pushed it around. I've since been very cautious about choosing what event to fly or not in regard to wind speed and although I would do the same for any bird, I really kind of need to be prepared to push through and deliver for close call situations. If I say no too much because of it, I won't continue to be considered for the work. Add to that, long flight times are a consideration too. I was hoping a tb48 would give me a solid 18 or so minutes on a regular basis. My flights are very modest- hovering and slow flight. The Inspire is easier to keep an eye on up there too I'm sure. I really need the power of the Inspire and the flight times of the P3. My answer may be to own both, each for their strengths for a given flight. Finances aren't there yet. Tough call at the moment. Still mulling.

I normally get about 12-13 mins on my TB47's depending on the type of flying. I always land at 30%

If you can't be weather selective and you are required to fly in high winds, definitely get the Inspire over the P3. The inspire weighs twice as much as the P3 so that tells you why.

 

[SultanGris]

I agree, that's the beauty of these quads, they make it easy for single operators too. Although, some amazing shots can be had with dual operators who know what they're doing. A second 5.8Ghz tx connected to fpv cam and some goggles turns the inspire into a pretty nice simple dual setup.

yea that would make a world of difference. too bad they dont offer a second camera as standard equipment. They arent that spendy.

 

[InspiredOne]

All those who insist that the P3 and the Inspire 1 are comparable, with the exception of price, are either 1) ignorant; 2) horribly misinformed; 3) oblivious to the obvious.

 

[Mike Mas]

You're best bet before investing in an Inspire is to find a Phantom one or two - learn to understand how GPS & Atti, RTH, etc. works. Most important - how to fly the machine "manually".

Keep in mind; auto take off and landing, follow me, POI, etc. is not going to work on a real shoot, you'll have to fly the helicopter to get the shot.

I've got some in depth reviews on my site on the Phantom 1 & 2 check them out!

www.rotory.com

 

[Oldblue]

Thanks for all the input so far! Mike, I currently fly a P2 with fpv set up and just looking to upgrade. I'm confident in my flying and am a cautious pilot.

JoffaDan, I see your point about being in a certain financial position to invest in the inspire but I don't know if I agree with your mindset. To me the only reason it should not come back would be due to my own negligence on any part. What scares me is the stories I've read where the problem supposidly lies in the firmware. So even though the appropriate checks have been done it results in a failure/crash. Someone did however make a good point that this is only a very small percentage of the inspires out there

 

[Mike Mas]

I guess an important note is; (excluding Cameras) a Phantom 2 -3 with a downlink has the same shooting capability as the Inspire. I feel comfortable in saying any shot you can achieve manually with the Inspire can be duplicated with a Phantom 2-3.

To do real work - the pilot still has to have the capability to fly the machine, regretfully a lot of the new automation we have now makes for less skilled pilots with more errors and crash's.

I'm not taking anything from the Inspire - she's a great platform electronic-wise and because of its additional weight, it smooths out a lot of the movement and GPS "Station Keeping" required on smaller lighter aircraft like the P1&2.

I guess what I'm trying to say is; don't go out and buy a Inspire if you woke up last week thinking you want to get a aerial platform - there's a lot to learn which can be achieved on the less expensive platforms.

Regards!