LOCKING SYSTEM PROPS 1345T INSPIRE 1

[PressMan]

LOCKING SYSTEM PROPS 1345T INSPIRE 1
Do any of you experienced flyers know if there is a secure lock that can be fitted on props 1345T for Inspire 1 so they can be securely locked when in the sky.

Thank you.

 

[cdusher]

Do you feel there's a problem with 1345t's?

 

[fei8820]

i am using it now is basicly plug n play for all inspire 1.. perviously i am using stock quick release ... for more than 100+ flight and change to rim tai aluminium hub for another 200+ flight and now finally i change to 1360T.... well so far so good ... never heard of problem.. but i love the 1360T

 

[Ted Venable]

i am using it now is basicly plug n play for all inspire 1.. perviously i am using stock quick release ... for more than 100+ flight and change to rim tai aluminium hub for another 200+ flight and now finally i change to 1360T.... well so far so good ... never heard of problem.. but i love the 1360T

Speaking of the 1360T, DJI advertises them for hight altitude (and more than likely, the X5). What benefits have you seen using them at normal altitudes and should I be worried with the extra pitch loads on the I1 motors?

 

[DrMrdalj]

LOCKING SYSTEM PROPS 1345T INSPIRE 1
Do any of you experienced flyers know if there is a secure lock that can be fitted on props 1345T for Inspire 1 so they can be securely locked when in the sky.

Thank you.

I find that, once you lock 1345T props on motor brackets, it is highly unlikely for them to get undone... It is due their fixed position - props do not rotate on motors as they are seated on rectangle pins... it is rectangle - so props can not move around motors under breaking nor accelerarion... Locks rotate over prop base, but they do not have any rotational load as props are fixed... So whole aircraft mass is lifted by props pulling vertically on locks. As locks are firmly pulled by props, and as there is no rotational force on locks, they hardly could get undone in midair... I believe that with 1345T there is just one event that can unlock prop and spell the disaster- that is broken lock... So, before each flight session I carefully inspect locks for any, even small damage, same as I do for props - if they don't crack under pulling whole aircraft mass/inertia, if they do not break under stress, then it is highly unlikely for them to get undone...

This is my opinion, feel free to share yours and correct me if you find me wrong...

 

[pixl45]

There is lots of anecdotal evidence on this board about "T" prop failures... it's worth searching.

 

[PressMan]

I find that, once you lock 1345T props on motor brackets, it is highly unlikely for them to get undone... It is due their fixed position - props do not rotate on motors as they are seated on rectangle pins... it is rectangle - so props can not move around motors under breaking nor accelerarion... Locks rotate over prop base, but they do not have any rotational load as props are fixed... So whole aircraft mass is lifted by props pulling vertically on locks. As locks are firmly pulled by props, and as there is no rotational force on locks, they hardly could get undone in midair... I believe that with 1345T there is just one event that can unlock prop and spell the disaster- that is broken lock... So, before each flight session I carefully inspect locks for any, even small damage, same as I do for props - if they don't crack under pulling whole aircraft mass/inertia, if they do not break under stress, then it is highly unlikely for them to get undone...

This is my opinion, feel free to share yours and correct me if you find me wrong...

 

[PressMan]

DrMrdalj.
Thank you & certainly the regains some of my confidence when flying.

 

[DrMrdalj]

There is lots of anecdotal evidence on this board about "T" prop failures... it's worth searching.

Hi pixl45,
I am aware that 1345S props and their push-twist-lock quick-release mountings ware kinda anecdotal, but in recent Inspire 1 v2 upgrade complete prop mounts and locks ware redesigned - this new verison (present on Inspire 1 v2 and Pro) is called 1345T and thay work in much different way then previous 1345S... I did not stumble upon any 1345T failure anecdote - would you be so kind to direct me to threads which reference such accidents.
Thanks.

 

[pixl45]

I have an Inspire 1 Pro myself, with the 1345T system. At around 30 hours I started to notice that one of the QR hubs didn't feel as tight as the others, with up and down movement of the prop, which wasn't remedied by putting a new prop on. And lately I have been noticing total losses showing up on this site due to prop loss.

The 1345T system is pretty new, but we're starting to see a rash of total losses -- aircraft with the new system are starting to accumulate hours now.

This thread starts out being about carbon fiber props, but as it goes on, it illustrates the alarming reason for needing them: T-Motor Carbon Fiber props

There are other threads as well -- but I'll let you do the digging. This video explains the symptoms well:

Needless to say, it's put quite a scare in me. I put an order in with Ralph at flyhighusa.com for a set of thread on CF props just today. $400, but peace of mind dictates.

I hope this helps. Ralph @Flyhigh is super helpful and can fill you in on the issue.

 

[DrMrdalj]

I have an Inspire 1 Pro myself, with the 1345T system. At around 30 hours I started to notice that one of the QR hubs didn't feel as tight as the others, with up and down movement of the prop, which wasn't remedied by putting a new prop on. And lately I have been noticing total losses showing up on this site due to prop loss.

The 1345T system is pretty new, but we're starting to see a rash of total losses -- aircraft with the new system are starting to accumulate hours now.

This thread starts out being about carbon fiber props, but as it goes on, it illustrates the alarming reason for needing them: T-Motor Carbon Fiber props

There are other threads as well -- but I'll let you do the digging. This video explains the symptoms well:

Needless to say, it's put quite a scare in me. I put an order in with Ralph at flyhighusa.com for a set of thread on CF props just today. $400, but peace of mind dictates.

I hope this helps. Ralph @Flyhigh is super helpful and can fill you in on the issue.

Thanks pixl45. As far as I could digg thru this formu and the other one - I did not find any significant number of incidents with 1345T. Regarding wiggling prop on your aircraft, and regarding video that you posted - I strongly believe that such defects can happen, anytime to anyone, but that they can be easily selfserviced with proper professional care. Regarding pictures in referenced thread - as far as I can see all prop locks are there, so it could be that prop broke or something other happened...

If rectangular prop mount, or any of prop lock got deformed - you can notice such thing easily during preflight chech (as you did, as video showed as well). Then you should not mask the issue by using paper towel, or by flying wiggly props, but disassemble prop mount and check for real cause of your problem - it can easily be solved by tightening some bolts or by replacing some plastic parts. Neglecting such obvious issue as wiggling prop or prop mount, or masking problem with paper towel, is sure way to waste whole aircraft.

So, based on several years of my experience with different multirotors, and based on my digging, I strongly believe that any prop issue can be spoted during preflight check, and that it can be easily solved by reasonable maintenance... If your 30 hours of flight (that would be at least 100 flights) led to situation when some maintenance is required - it seems pretty normal and expected... I strongly hope that you will not experience any problems with your aircraft, but if one who flies 100 flights in few months skips to deal with aircraft maintenance with professional attention then it would not be surprise for such aircrat to suffer incident. Please bare in mind that maintenance procedures for RC multicopters are not much different then any other light aircraft.

Finaly, my personal conclusion is not that 1345T can't malfunction, but it is unlikely that one cannot spot malfunction prior to the flight, and it is extremely unlikely for prop to get unexpectedly undone/broken in the midair... Unfortunately, if something is unlikely it does not mean it's impossible, but same goes for all the other aftermarket parts, bells and whistles...

If you have decided to go for CF props, pleae see page 2 of following thread as friendly warning...
Flying with adaptors from Infinity Hobby and T-motor 14 X 4,8 carbon proppellers

Best regards and happy flying to all of you

 

[pixl45]

Thanks pixl45. As far as I could digg thru this formu and the other one - I did not find any significant number of incidents with 1345T. Regarding wiggling prop on your aircraft, and regarding video that you posted - I strongly believe that such defects can happen, anytime to anyone, but that they can be easily selfserviced with proper professional care. Regarding pictures in referenced thread - as far as I can see all prop locks are there, so it could be that prop broke or something other happened...

If rectangular prop mount, or any of prop lock got deformed - you can notice such thing easily during preflight chech (as you did, as video showed as well). Then you should not mask the issue by using paper towel, or by flying wiggly props, but disassemble prop mount and check for real cause of your problem - it can easily be solved by tightening some bolts or by replacing some plastic parts. Neglecting such obvious issue as wiggling prop or prop mount, or masking problem with paper towel, is sure way to waste whole aircraft.

So, based on several years of my experience with different multirotors, and based on my digging, I strongly believe that any prop issue can be spoted during preflight check, and that it can be easily solved by reasonable maintenance... If your 30 hours of flight (that would be at least 100 flights) led to situation when some maintenance is required - it seems pretty normal and expected... I strongly hope that you will not experience any problems with your aircraft, but if one who flies 100 flights in few months skips to deal with aircraft maintenance with professional attention then it would not be surprise for such aircrat to suffer incident. Please bare in mind that maintenance procedures for RC multicopters are not much different then any other light aircraft.

Finaly, my personal conclusion is not that 1345T can't malfunction, but it is unlikely that one cannot spot malfunction prior to the flight, and it is extremely unlikely for prop to get unexpectedly undone/broken in the midair... Unfortunately, if something is unlikely it does not mean it's impossible, but same goes for all the other aftermarket parts, bells and whistles...

If you have decided to go for CF props, pleae see page 2 of following thread as friendly warning...
Flying with adaptors from Infinity Hobby and T-motor 14 X 4,8 carbon proppellers

Best regards and happy flying to all of you

"Regarding wiggling prop on your aircraft, and regarding video that you posted - I strongly believe that such defects can happen, anytime to anyone, but that they can be easily selfserviced with proper professional care. "

So, you're suggesting that this is a part that can be serviced? How would you do that beyond replacing it? It's a piece of plastic, there's nothing adjustable about it. What other maintenance to this particular part are you suggesting?

I'm not really happy about your inference that the problems are a lack of maintenance on my part. How could you know that?

Also, the post you are quoting references using a cheaper prop adaptor. The accepted go-to adaptor by the PROs that I know of here is made by Lynn Phann. Nothing cheap about it.

 

[DrMrdalj]

"Regarding wiggling prop on your aircraft, and regarding video that you posted - I strongly believe that such defects can happen, anytime to anyone, but that they can be easily selfserviced with proper professional care. "

So, you're suggesting that this is a part that can be serviced? How would you do that beyond replacing it? It's a piece of plastic, there's nothing adjustable about it. What other maintenance to this particular part are you suggesting?

I'm not really happy about your inference that the problems are a lack of maintenance on my part. How could you know that?

Also, the post you are quoting references using a cheaper prop adaptor. The accepted go-to adaptor by the PROs that I know of here is made by Lynn Phann. Nothing cheap about it.

Yes, that is my opinion based on my experience - prop mount can be serviced/replaced with simple tools and reasonable care.

If you disassemble 1345T prop mount you will find that it consist from four small parts (if I can recall correctly) - there are 1) top plate with rectangular fixing pin, 2) ring with two prop locks, 3) metal leaf spring for securing locks in position, 4) screws and maybe some more... Each of thease small parts can be, and should be inspected carefully if you notice any prop wiggling. You can replace whole set of these small parts - complete prop mount, or you can service just one of them (if leaf spring got losse it can be reformed to regain stiffer hold of lock in position)... If you feel uncomfortable to do this by yourself you can have your aircraft inspected and serviced by experienced serviceman who will do the same...

Regarding CF props, and link that I provided - my intention was not to prove that CF props are wrong, but that they can malfunction as well. Comparing to number of Inspire pilots who fly stock props, there are very few of them who fly props of your choice, so any potential defect will be much less obvious and frequent - therefore there are less chance to get warned by a community so one should pay proper personal attention to spot such defect before it ruins aircraft. It is not wrong to take CF props route, they provide some unique advantages, but they are not bulletproof and can (and do) malfunction as well. So, regarding such potential malfunction you shoud take care and pay attention same as with any other props...

 

[DrMrdalj]

PS

Buying two 1345T prop mounts (one "red" and one "white") costs just 5$
Buy Inspire 1 Series - 1345T Propeller Installation Kit | DJI Store

So, for $400 you can buy 160 prop mounts - and you can replace ALL four prop mounts on your aircraft 40 times!

You can decide to change ALL FOUR MOUNTS AND ALL FOUR PROPS when any of them seems suspicious. Based on your info, there is cca 30 hours of flight time before symptom of just ONE potential prop mount failure. As four 1345T monuts will cost $10 and four 1345T props will cost $24, for a price of CF prop set you can fly for ($400/$34)*30h= 350h on fresh 1345T mounts and props Not to mention that in such way you retain DJI warranty

I do not want to push you away from CF props route, as they can have some advantages regarding aircraft flight performance, but I strongly advocate careful maintenance of any aircraft part and believe that it does not cost you much money or much of your time to have aircraft properly maintained without any aftermarket bells and whistles...

 

[The Editor]

I am astounded at the amount of threads and posts these new fangled prop fixing systems generate. Fixes for loose props or plastic deforming and not sitting right or wear on the cams on the props themselves. The threaded props along with the redundancy of prop locks were and still are the most reliable and safest way to attach your propellers to your aircraft.
I personally don't want anything with the word 'quick' in its name to be associated with any props I mount on my Inspire or any other multirotor.
The whole mechanism of screwing threaded metal to metal thread and then clipping a lock in place as a second stage of protection means I get tactile feedback every time I attach and remove a prop.
Might take me 45 seconds longer to complete the entire process but it means it is one less thing to worry about whilst airborne.
Can anybody logically explain to me this incessant need to be airborne 45 seconds faster than using a system that is tried and tested and has a layer of redundancy?
Quicker in aviation set up does not equate to better.

 

[pixl45]

PS

Buying two 1345T prop mounts (one "red" and one "white") costs just 5$
Buy Inspire 1 Series - 1345T Propeller Installation Kit | DJI Store

So, for $400 you can buy 160 prop mounts - and you can replace ALL four prop mounts on your aircraft 40 times!

You can decide to change ALL FOUR MOUNTS AND ALL FOUR PROPS when any of them seems suspicious. Based on your info, there is cca 30 hours of flight time before symptom of just ONE potential prop mount failure. As four 1345T monuts will cost $10 and four 1345T props will cost $24, for a price of CF prop set you can fly for ($400/$34)*30h= 350h on fresh 1345T mounts and props Not to mention that in such way you retain DJI warranty

I do not want to push you away from CF props route, as they can have some advantages regarding aircraft flight performance, but I strongly advocate careful maintenance of any aircraft part and believe that it does not cost you much money or much of your time to have aircraft properly maintained without any aftermarket bells and whistles...

You're assuming of course that all prop failures happen on the ground. I may economise on other things, but not what is keeping my UAV in the air.

Ahhh yes... the DJI warranty. So many happy customers with great and timely service from DJI. Maybe hobbyists will be ok with their service... but time is money for me. I was well aware of the crappy service from DJI before I bought... and their warranty did not factor into my buying decision.

 

[DrMrdalj]

You're assuming of course that all prop failures happen on the ground. I may economise on other things, but not what is keeping my UAV in the air.

Ahhh yes... the DJI warranty. So many happy customers with great and timely service from DJI. Maybe hobbyists will be ok with their service... but time is money for me. I was well aware of the crappy service from DJI before I bought... and their warranty did not factor into my buying decision.

I am not assuming anything - it is basic aeronautical wisdom that all potential problems can be, and should be, spotted and solved on the ground. With proper attitude regarding aircraft maintenance, which does not cost much money nor effort, you are able (and obligated) to anticipate, analyse and resolve any potential issue BEFORE getting airborne. It is not hard, it is not expensive, but it ask for your professional attention. Buying any aftermarket product, of any kind and purpose, does not get you peace of mind - you can buy longer service life, but your mind and your maintenance has to be very serious anyway.

So, with proper maintenance procedures there is extremely small chance for any prop related issue in the midair. It is completely same issue and completely same solution with any prop type or manufacturer, so having that in mind - it is safe to use stock mounts and props if you have reasonable and professional attitude regarding your aircraft.

 

[pixl45]

I am not assuming anything - it is basic aeronautical wisdom that all potential problems can be, and should be, spotted and solved on the ground. With proper attitude regarding aircraft maintenance, which does not cost much money nor effort, you are able (and obligated) to anticipate, analyse and resolve any potential issue BEFORE getting airborne. It is not hard, it is not expensive, but it ask for your professional attention. Buying any aftermarket product, of any kind and purpose, does not get you peace of mind - you can buy longer service life, but your mind and your maintenance has to be very serious anyway.

So, with proper maintenance procedures there is extremely small chance for any prop related issue in the midair. It is completely same issue and completely same solution with any prop type or manufacturer, so having that in mind - it is safe to use stock mounts and props if you have reasonable and professional attitude regarding your aircraft.

Honestly, I think you need to be more careful with your choice of words. You imply that everyone that has lost a 1345T prop lost it through lack of diligence and/or poor maintenance practices. I know this is certainly not the case with me*, and I assume that others are equally diligent. To assume otherwise seems...um...unfair to say the least.

So that said, I will no longer comment in this thread. When things get that presumptuous, I'm gone.

P

*for the record, I've never lost a prop. My moving to avert the possibility is the true definition of maintenance and diligence.

 

[DrMrdalj]

I am astounded at the amount of threads and posts these new fangled prop fixing systems generate. Fixes for loose props or plastic deforming and not sitting right or wear on the cams on the props themselves. The threaded props along with the redundancy of prop locks were and still are the most reliable and safest way to attach your propellers to your aircraft.
I personally don't want anything with the word 'quick' in its name to be associated with any props I mount on my Inspire or any other multirotor.
The whole mechanism of screwing threaded metal to metal thread and then clipping a lock in place as a second stage of protection means I get tactile feedback every time I attach and remove a prop.
Might take me 45 seconds longer to complete the entire process but it means it is one less thing to worry about whilst airborne.
Can anybody logically explain to me this incessant need to be airborne 45 seconds faster than using a system that is tried and tested and has a layer of redundancy?
Quicker in aviation set up does not equate to better.

I strongly agree with you that simplest solution is most reliable one. On the other hand, with proper attention and maintenance, any solution can be reliable to the point that props do not fly off in the midair (yes, with simplest solution you will get simplest maintenance work and least amount of servicing)

If simplest solutions ware most welcomed by average customer, then smartphones and cars would not be so complicated as they are... In many cases customers opt for comfort and amusement instead for reliability, and they pay price in more complex, more frequent and more expensive maintenance. But that does not mean that modern car should be driven with wiggle on the steering wheel or loose windshield...

 

[DrMrdalj]

Honestly, I think you need to be more careful with your choice of words. You imply that everyone that has lost a 1345T prop lost it through lack of diligence and/or poor maintenance practices. I know this is certainly not the case with me*, and I assume that others are equally diligent. To assume otherwise seems...um...unfair to say the least.

So that said, I will no longer comment in this thread. When things get that presumptuous, I'm gone.

P

*for the record, I've never lost a prop. My moving to avert the possibility is the true definition of maintenance and diligence.

Please do not be offended, but you miss the point completely and think of my words without reading them troughly. I will be kind to repeat myself, but you should be kind to read whole discussion instead of just one sentence.

I stated several posts ago that even something is unlikely does not mean it is impossible - so all kinds of malfunctions can happen, yes even prop flyoff... But it is highly unlikely for properly maintained prop to get undone in the midair. It is much more likely for one to hit the building or tree - I know so many examples of collision but I do not know more than two cases of 1354T prof lost for any reason. So, as I stated several posts ago ALL PROPS can and do malfunction from time to time, and to minimise risk of getting prop lost in the midair one HAS TO HAVE PROFESSIONAL ATTITUDE. That goes for me, same as for YOU (flying without throughly solving wiggling prop issue) and for GUY IN THE VIDEO who did not even bother to find real cause of his rattling problem but used paper towel do mask the problem (if problem was that some screw loosened that paper towel would INCREASE CHANCE of prop flyoff)... So, my comments, nor anybody else, can not cover 100% of incidents - I just pointed how to minimise risk of incident, and stated that chance of incident with stock props is negligible if maintained carefully.

As I stated, if something is unlikely that does not mean its impossible - but I believe that chances of prop loss are high as chances to get bitten by a snake. Some people got bitten, some for stupidity and some from plain bad luck, but much more did NOT get bitten due to their careful attitude when hiking, and much much more people died from hart disease or from falling of the cliff.. Expensive equipment can help you but it does not protect you from snake bite when hiking - it is your attention and attitude that makes you good chances for healthy return.

So, please, do not imply in every post that there is any systematic problem with 1345T prop design, do not make false panic, as it is obvious that much more trouble is caused by improper maintenance and improper education of aircraft operator (you provided examples yourself)... That does not mean that 1345T malfunction is impossible, but it is highly unlikely if you have proper attitude - same as a snake bite when hiking.

Hope this explains my point.