No Fly Zones

bryharv · Apr 12, 2016

Phatzo said:
how?
fw version and which app version?

version 1.09.01.02

The Editor · Apr 12, 2016

Ralph thompson said:
Thanks Simon. I live in Montréal, Canada. As a pilot with UK, USA and Canadian licenses (now expired) and an ex-Director of IATA (dealing with ATC and Airport regs) I can assure you than drones or anything flying in the path of an aircraft are a big concern for pilots as I'm sure you are aware. I'm very pleased that DJI is taking this issue seriously and doing a good job of trying to address concerns as best they can. I've read so many stories of mindless souls flying drones unsafely, just read about someone flying his drone to 3000 ft, above cloud and then not having sufficient power to get home and crashing. Because drones are so popular in the USA, police now have the authority to arrest anyone not complying fully with the regs. I accept that exceptions can be made but I would like to hear the editor state that these are special circumstances and that under no circumstances should any operator use their drones in NFZ's or anywhere without full compliance to the regulations.

Maybe this story from Saturday's Guardian helps to underscore the industries concerns & the justification for NFZ's. This incident would not have happened if this drone had programmed NFZ's.
Lufthansa jumbo reports near miss with drone over Los Angeles

Thanks for the forum, lots of helpful and educational material here

For your information I always do advise that anyone wanting to operate within a NFZ does so only with the requisite permissions in place.
In fact, since I operate commercially I take no notice of DJI's Red/Green/Yellow blobs and only work from certified air charts together with apps like SkyDemon with the appropriate plates loaded.
Having said that, you will also see that I disagreed with DJI even releasing a public beta which I knew would cause more problems than it solved and I went on further to say I would offer no support or help on the matter until GeoFence went live.

Simon Mallin · Apr 12, 2016

bryharv said:
Can I disable NFZ with Android device and then do my flights on iOS apple device? Not sure how this all works.

I needed to do this last month and was told that both aircraft and tablet needed to have the GEObeta firmware/software installed, which I did. I seem to remember there being an email address to contact for an IOS version of the GO app software but can't find it now. Maybe no longer available.

I did an advanced unlock and had an android tablet for flying and an ipad for camera operation. When I got to the site I got no messages about it being in a NFZ but I don't know whether this was because I had already unlocked or because I was just outside. Out of interest I tried my ipad for flying and it worked fine, so I suspect I was outside the geofence. Interestingly although according to the DJI GEO map I was inside, according to the DJI NFZ map I was outside because it is a smaller circle which seems to be the case for most zones. This is what DJI say about it:

The GEO system is advisory only. Sometimes the Zones in GEO do not necessarily match the parameters or shape of official geospatial features due to an abundance of caution or technical reasons. Each user is responsible for checking official sources and determining what laws or regulations might apply to their flight.

Sorry I can't give you an exact answer but to play safe don't rely on an IOS working when you get to site.

bryharv · Apr 12, 2016

very helpful, thank you Simon!

The Editor · Apr 12, 2016

Simon Mallin said:
I needed to do this last month and was told that both aircraft and tablet needed to have the GEObeta firmware/software installed, which I did. I seem to remember there being an email address to contact for an IOS version of the GO app software but can't find it now. Maybe no longer available.

I did an advanced unlock and had an android tablet for flying and an ipad for camera operation. When I got to the site I got no messages about it being in a NFZ but I don't know whether this was because I had already unlocked or because I was just outside. Out of interest I tried my ipad for flying and it worked fine, so I suspect I was outside the geofence. Interestingly although according to the DJI GEO map I was inside, according to the DJI NFZ map I was outside because it is a smaller circle which seems to be the case for most zones. This is what DJI say about it:

The GEO system is advisory only. Sometimes the Zones in GEO do not necessarily match the parameters or shape of official geospatial features due to an abundance of caution or technical reasons. Each user is responsible for checking official sources and determining what laws or regulations might apply to their flight.

Sorry I can't give you an exact answer but to play safe don't rely on an IOS working when you get to site.

Yes - the polygons are not being rendered properly which is an ongoing issue with the software.
Anyone using it may experience unpredictable results.
Like I said - they should have never public beta released it!

Scotflieger · Apr 12, 2016

bryharv said:
Yes I know it's called GEO and in beta, but your response insinuates it's not possible yet to disable NFZ at all. When in fact you CAN disable it with Android device.

You know more than I am allowed to talk about. There is no iOS app listed for the public beta. Use the Android if is works for you.

Simon Mallin · Apr 13, 2016

This is what I'd seen - taken from the news release when the GEO system was announced in December. Not sure if it's still valid and from Scotflieger's response most probably not but maybe worth a try.

Android users can directly download the APK file at http://bit.ly/1PyIVIA. Users of iOS devices can request a download of the beta app by providing an email address to [email protected].

DesertWindAero · May 18, 2016

Just some info.

I applied for the iOS Beta version and was approved. I downloaded and installed the DJI GO GEO app onto an iPad 2 Air.

I downloaded "Inspire 1 Beta Firmware V01.09.01.02" and updated the aircraft without a hitch. The controller and batteries didn't require updating.

I logged in to DJI, navigated to my account, created an unlocking plan for the NFZ we're affected by and saved it.

I went to the area inside the NFZ, powered everything up as normal and started the separate GO GEO app. A confirmation screen popped up where I had to check off that I was authorized to fly due to the saved unlocking plan, and that I would be extra careful.

Started the engines and took off to about 5 meters and did a flight control test, everything looked fine.

I'm supposed to fly a real mission by the end of the week in the NFZ...I will let you know how it goes.

Simon Mallin · May 18, 2016

DesertDenizen said:
Just some info.

I applied for the iOS Beta version and was approved. I downloaded and installed the DJI GO GEO app onto an iPad 2 Air.

I downloaded "Inspire 1 Beta Firmware V01.09.01.02" and updated the aircraft without a hitch. The controller and batteries didn't require updating.

I logged in to DJI, navigated to my account, created an unlocking plan for the NFZ we're affected by and saved it.

I went to the area inside the NFZ, powered everything up as normal and started the separate GO GEO app. A confirmation screen popped up where I had to check off that I was authorized to fly due to the saved unlocking plan, and that I would be extra careful.

Started the engines and took off to about 5 meters and did a flight control test, everything looked fine.

I'm supposed to fly a real mission by the end of the week in the NFZ...I will let you know how it goes.

Good to know that an IOS version can be obtained then. Hopefully it won't be much longer before the GEO system goes live.

Look forward to hearing how it goes.

DesertWindAero · May 18, 2016

Well, the timeline for the flight in the NFZ got moved up and I flew today.

There were no issues at all...it was just like any other flight, smooth as glass.

I'm a happy camper because there will be more flights in this NFZ in the future.

Phatzo · May 18, 2016

how did you apply and who did you have to contact?
any info able to share?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

DesertWindAero · May 18, 2016

Phatzo said:
how did you apply and who did you have to contact?
any info able to share?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Here's how I did it...

Logged in to my DJI account
While logged in, went to DJI - Fly Safe
Clicked on GEO SYSTEM link
Scrolled down until you see "iOS Beta Version" and an "APPLY" box
Clicked on the APPLY box
A new email message popped up addressed to "[email protected]" with the subject "Application for GEO Test"
Compose an email. I explained who we were and what our situation was regarding the need to fly in the NFZ.
I sent my application email on Friday the 13th, and received notification this morning on my iPad via TestFlight that the GO GEO app was available for download; never did get a reply to my email
Downloaded and installed the GO GEO app
Downloaded and installed the associated firmware at DJI GEO System - Up-to-date Information On Where to Fly
Updated the aircraft per normal. Batteries and controllers did not need updating
I went to DJI GEO System - Unlock Areas For Authorized Access and set up an unlocking plan
Received notification that the plan was set to go
I had to use the GO GEO app, not the regular GO app
There is an acknowledgement screen that pops up before you take off...you have to acknowledge you are approved (via the unlock plan) to fly in that area, and you acknowledge to be extra careful

And, like I said, the rest was cake...like flying a normal mission.

Phatzo · May 19, 2016

DesertDenizen said:
Here's how I did it...

Logged in to my DJI account

While logged in, went to DJI - Fly Safe

Clicked on GEO SYSTEM link

Scrolled down until you see "iOS Beta Version" and an "APPLY" box

Clicked on the APPLY box

A new email message popped up addressed to "[email protected]" with the subject "Application for GEO Test"

Compose an email. I explained who we were and what our situation was regarding the need to fly in the NFZ.

I sent my application email on Friday the 13th, and received notification this morning on my iPad via TestFlight that the GO GEO app was available for download; never did get a reply to my email

Downloaded and installed the GO GEO app

Downloaded and installed the associated firmware at DJI GEO System - Up-to-date Information On Where to Fly

Updated the aircraft per normal. Batteries and controllers did not need updating

I went to DJI GEO System - Unlock Areas For Authorized Access and set up an unlocking plan

Received notification that the plan was set to go

I had to use the GO GEO app, not the regular GO app

There is an acknowledgement screen that pops up before you take off...you have to acknowledge you are approved (via the unlock plan) to fly in that area, and you acknowledge to be extra careful

And, like I said, the rest was cake...like flying a normal mission.

thank you for the information

cool.
i will give it a shot when i get to it in time.

Scotflieger · May 19, 2016

DesertDenizen said:
Here's how I did it...

Logged in to my DJI account

While logged in, went to DJI - Fly Safe

Clicked on GEO SYSTEM link

Scrolled down until you see "iOS Beta Version" and an "APPLY" box

Clicked on the APPLY box

A new email message popped up addressed to "[email protected]" with the subject "Application for GEO Test"

Compose an email. I explained who we were and what our situation was regarding the need to fly in the NFZ.

I sent my application email on Friday the 13th, and received notification this morning on my iPad via TestFlight that the GO GEO app was available for download; never did get a reply to my email

Downloaded and installed the GO GEO app

Downloaded and installed the associated firmware at DJI GEO System - Up-to-date Information On Where to Fly

Updated the aircraft per normal. Batteries and controllers did not need updating

I went to DJI GEO System - Unlock Areas For Authorized Access and set up an unlocking plan

Received notification that the plan was set to go

I had to use the GO GEO app, not the regular GO app

There is an acknowledgement screen that pops up before you take off...you have to acknowledge you are approved (via the unlock plan) to fly in that area, and you acknowledge to be extra careful

And, like I said, the rest was cake...like flying a normal mission.

You have been given access to the beta2 GEO IOS GO App which is time limited and runs out in 29 days (about 16 Jun). It is not necessarily the case that a formal version will be issued in this timescale. The GEO firmware will operate with the formal app but with the old un-unlockable NFZ red circles.

Simon Mallin · May 19, 2016

DesertDenizen said:
Here's how I did it...

Logged in to my DJI account

While logged in, went to DJI - Fly Safe

Clicked on GEO SYSTEM link

Scrolled down until you see "iOS Beta Version" and an "APPLY" box

Clicked on the APPLY box

A new email message popped up addressed to "[email protected]" with the subject "Application for GEO Test"

Compose an email. I explained who we were and what our situation was regarding the need to fly in the NFZ.

I sent my application email on Friday the 13th, and received notification this morning on my iPad via TestFlight that the GO GEO app was available for download; never did get a reply to my email

Downloaded and installed the GO GEO app

Downloaded and installed the associated firmware at DJI GEO System - Up-to-date Information On Where to Fly

Updated the aircraft per normal. Batteries and controllers did not need updating

I went to DJI GEO System - Unlock Areas For Authorized Access and set up an unlocking plan

Received notification that the plan was set to go

I had to use the GO GEO app, not the regular GO app

There is an acknowledgement screen that pops up before you take off...you have to acknowledge you are approved (via the unlock plan) to fly in that area, and you acknowledge to be extra careful

And, like I said, the rest was cake...like flying a normal mission.

Glad it all went well. I have applied for the IOS beta version today.

What is 'Test Flight' that you refer to on your iPad when you received notification that the GEO app was available for download?

Simon Mallin · May 19, 2016

Scotflieger said:
You have been given access to the beta2 GEO IOS GO App which is time limited and runs out in 29 days (about 16 Jun). It is not necessarily the case that a formal version will be issued in this timescale. The GEO firmware will operate with the formal app but with the old un-unlockable NFZ red circles.

Scotfieger, just to confirm are you saying that:

1) The GEO IOS (beta) GO app will only work for another 29 days, or only unlock for another 29 days?

2) By 'formal' version I assume mean a publically available version (eg 1.8.1.00)? And you're saying that the a new version with the GEO System feature incorporated may not be released within the next 29 days?

3) The aircraft GEO firmware can still be used with a publically available version of GO, but currently this doesn't allow you to unlock zones, only display them?

And sorry to be a pain but do you know if:

- The aircraft GEO firmware is the same as the latest public/formal version (eg 1.8.1.00) but with the addition of the GEO feature?

- By unlocking in advance on a PC (which lasts for 3 days) is it still necessary to have the GEO GO app installed on your iPad/tablet? When I flew in a warning zone a few weeks ago I unlocked in advance and installed the GEO app on an Android tablet to fly. I got no messages on site about being in a zone and I successfully tried flying aircraft with my iPad (no GEO app).That suggested that either the zone mapping was incorrect (should I have still got a message although it had been unlocked in advance?) or the GEO app isn't needed with advance unlock.

I assumed that the app receives the advanced unlock information and then needs to communicate with the aircraft to 'unlock' it, but if after unlocking on the PC the tablet and app aren't switched on until 'on site' and there is no wifi connection, how can it have received any information about which zone to unlock? DJI do not say in their advance unlock instructions that the app must be connected to wifi before going to site. This suggests that the aircraft is picking up the 'unlock' signal in some other way (but how?) and is the GEO app therefore necessary, or is it only needed if you need to unlock on site?

Thanks.

Simon Mallin · May 19, 2016

DesertDenizen said:
Here's how I did it...

Logged in to my DJI account

While logged in, went to DJI - Fly Safe

Clicked on GEO SYSTEM link

Scrolled down until you see "iOS Beta Version" and an "APPLY" box

Clicked on the APPLY box

A new email message popped up addressed to "[email protected]" with the subject "Application for GEO Test"

Compose an email. I explained who we were and what our situation was regarding the need to fly in the NFZ.

I sent my application email on Friday the 13th, and received notification this morning on my iPad via TestFlight that the GO GEO app was available for download; never did get a reply to my email

Downloaded and installed the GO GEO app

Downloaded and installed the associated firmware at DJI GEO System - Up-to-date Information On Where to Fly

Updated the aircraft per normal. Batteries and controllers did not need updating

I went to DJI GEO System - Unlock Areas For Authorized Access and set up an unlocking plan

Received notification that the plan was set to go

I had to use the GO GEO app, not the regular GO app

There is an acknowledgement screen that pops up before you take off...you have to acknowledge you are approved (via the unlock plan) to fly in that area, and you acknowledge to be extra careful

And, like I said, the rest was cake...like flying a normal mission.

One other question - did you unlock in advance on a PC or on site through the GEO GO app? I'm assuming on site.

Scotflieger · May 19, 2016

Simon Mallin said:
Scotfieger, just to confirm are you saying that:

1) The GEO IOS (beta) GO app will only work for another 29 days, or only unlock for another 29 days?

2) By 'formal' version I assume mean a publically available version (eg 1.8.1.00)? And you're saying that the a new version with the GEO System feature incorporated may not be released within the next 29 days?

3) The aircraft GEO firmware can still be used with a publically available version of GO, but currently this doesn't allow you to unlock zones, only display them?

And sorry to be a pain but do you know if:

- The aircraft GEO firmware is the same as the latest public/formal version (eg 1.8.1.00) but with the addition of the GEO feature?

- By unlocking in advance on a PC (which lasts for 3 days) is it still necessary to have the GEO GO app installed on your iPad/tablet? When I flew in a warning zone a few weeks ago I unlocked in advance and installed the GEO app on an Android tablet to fly. I got no messages on site about being in a zone and I successfully tried flying aircraft with my iPad (no GEO app).That suggested that either the zone mapping was incorrect (should I have still got a message although it had been unlocked in advance?) or the GEO app isn't needed with advance unlock.

I assumed that the app receives the advanced unlock information and then needs to communicate with the aircraft to 'unlock' it, but if after unlocking on the PC the tablet and app aren't switched on until 'on site' and there is no wifi connection, how can it have received any information about which zone to unlock? DJI do not say in their advance unlock instructions that the app must be connected to wifi before going to site. This suggests that the aircraft is picking up the 'unlock' signal in some other way (but how?) and is the GEO app therefore necessary, or is it only needed if you need to unlock on site?

Thanks.

Simon

The beta App downloaded via Apple TestFlight app (used to release beta software by developers) will stop working after the remaining time has elapsed. The beta status is indicated by the orange dot beside the icon.
Formal = Public release. Currently 1.8.1.0. I have no information on when or if DJI will release the GEO functionality to the general user.
Correct. The GEO functionality in the BETA FW 1.9.1.2 is only activated when used with the GEO beta app.
The GEO beta firmware updates only one sub-system associated with the GEO functionality.
You can unlock either with the app on location or in advance via the website (valid for 3 days). Once unlocked the Authorisation Zone (or new NFZ) circle disappears. I have only tried the app unlocking recently so I can not fully answer your question. If you can start the motors (and you have the necessary permissions to fly) then it is unlocked.
It is the aircraft that holds the lock/unlock data and must communicate to the internet via the app. The app has no permanent memory and will only display zone information when within a certain distance from a zone. You need to use the new icon on left of the top row of the beta app to select the Warning Zones to display and what warning you get. This can lead to a situation that until you arrive at your planned NFZ will find out its lock status. Once you unlock a zone it is advisable to power up the aircraft at home and connect to the internet before you travel to site. You are unlikely to get any confirmation whether this has done what you want.

If I were you I would stop worrying and thinking too deeply. Also, as mentioned before, I can only offer limited advice on GEO.

Simon Mallin · May 19, 2016

Scotflieger said:
Simon

The beta App downloaded via Apple TestFlight app (used to release beta software by developers) will stop working after the remaining time has elapsed. The beta status is indicated by the orange dot beside the icon.

Formal = Public release. Currently 1.8.1.0. I have no information on when or if DJI will release the GEO functionality to the general user.

Correct. The GEO functionality in the BETA FW 1.9.1.2 is only activated when used with the GEO beta app.

The GEO beta firmware updates only one sub-system associated with the GEO functionality.

You can unlock either with the app on location or in advance via the website (valid for 3 days). Once unlocked the Authorisation Zone (or new NFZ) circle disappears. I have only tried the app unlocking recently so I can not fully answer your question. If you can start the motors (and you have the necessary permissions to fly) then it is unlocked.

It is the aircraft that holds the lock/unlock data and must communicate to the internet via the app. The app has no permanent memory and will only display zone information when within a certain distance from a zone. You need to use the new icon on left of the top row of the beta app to select the Warning Zones to display and what warning you get. This can lead to a situation that until you arrive at your planned NFZ will find out its lock status. Once you unlock a zone it is advisable to power up the aircraft at home and connect to the internet before you travel to site. You are unlikely to get any confirmation whether this has done what you want.

If I were you I would stop worrying and thinking too deeply. Also, as mentioned before, I can only offer limited advice on GEO.

Thanks for all of this.

Obviously then it's imperative to link the app & aircraft with active wifi before heading off to site to effect the advance unlock - just surprised (or maybe not!) that DJI don't make this clear.