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USA So. Couldn't use my Part WTF!?07 license the other day...

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Was called to do a job adjacent to a class D airport. Like a good, GL insured, Part 107 license holder, I called local FAA Standards office to get authorization because the shoot was in a few days. I was notified that Part 107 authorizations were ONLY given through online portal. You know, the one that allows 90 days for review... Yeah, that one.

That doesn't work, so I call the airport tower to seek authorization. The nice person on the end of the line informs me that because it is a commercial (read: for hire) operation, authorization can only be given through the online portal.

Here's the part that has me seeing red:

They then went on to inform me that the only thing a hobbyist, (not insured, no formal training, or Part 107 license) has to do at the same location/ time is notify the tower of operation details (altitude, time frame, contact ph #, etc) and receive an IMMEDIATE authorization or denial FROM THE TOWER. So I call the tower back, NOTIFY the tower of my flight parameters and get immediate authorization with a request to call them by phone, before and after the flight(s.)

So the FAA rules, in current form, allow for an untrained hobbyist to fly in Class D airspace, virtually immediately, with one phone call to the tower, while a trained, FAA licensed UAS pilot must receive authorization within 90 days from a bureaucrat in a distant office. And the only difference between the two, is that the qualified pilot being grounded is paid to fly, and the UNQUALIFIED pilot, with unqualified equipment is free to fly on the honor system? And the FAA has established this system for safety purposes!? Bulls**t. And some of the whack jobs in here rail against supposed Part 107 violators being such a mortal danger to the general populace when the FAA obviously couldn't GAF as long as they aren't being paid.

A long time ago, I was told that when something doesn't make sense, to "follow the money." And also, "The Golden Rule," which is: "The one with the gold, makes the rules."

Because of this circumstance, Part 107 appears to be nothing more than a sham to benefit larger-scale production companies by limiting access to smaller ones which are more likely to operate on an abbreviated timeline, while inadvertently, (or not,) encouraging clandestine, commercial UAS operation.

One thing is for sure: Allowing untrained hobbyists to fly on a moment's notice, in the same airspace that a licensed operator needs excessive bureaucratic scrutiny, undermines the legitimacy of the entire FAA Part 107 licensing process. And some of you guys ***** about Joe Hobbyist stealing your work? Thank the FAA for allowing them in the air while they keep you grounded.

Or am I missing something?
 
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Is the location somewhere hobbyists are likely to fly? Remember that the AMA is made up of people who fly mostly in model aircraft aerodromes, which are located in far off cornfields or at least designated areas where there's not much of a chance for damage to people or property. They have the attitude that people are flying drones because they want to fly drones, not because they are into photography, or experimenting with radio, or whatever.

I think the FAA don't seem to understand that people are (or will be) using these things to augment other hobbies, so the assume the number of hobbyists flying close to airports will be relatively low. They're probably correct, but who knows? I don't think we've yet seen the "killer app" that will make drones become truly mainstream. When we do it will change the airspace more than cell phones changed radio and TV spectrum.
 
The location was a city dog park roughly 1 mile from a runway threshold of a class D airport, directly underneath the RH traffic pattern.

Regardless, it is class D airspace and License holders are locked out by design of FAA while ANYONE flying a drone, AS LONG AS IT IS NOT under Part 107, can receive immediate authorization. Again by FAA design.

The big question is, Did you fly the job?

Not for want of trying. By sheer "coincidence" I had a forced update that morning (after requesting from DJI the night before, that the specific nfz be unlocked) which knocked out my camera. Needless to say I spent 4 hours on location updating firmware, switching app devices/ cables to no avail. It wasn't until I posted the problem here, and Lake-flyer correctly identified it as a corrupted app that needed to be uninstalled/ reinstalled, that I got my camera back.
 
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It's currently non-sensical. I think once (if) the FAA portal can grant/deny requests within 7 (or less) days, this upside-down set of unintended consequences will continue.
 
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Was called to do a job adjacent to a class D airport. Like a good, GL insured, Part 107 license holder, I called local FAA Standards office to get authorization because the shoot was in a few days. I was notified that Part 107 authorizations were ONLY given through online portal. You know, the one that allows 90 days for review... Yeah, that one.

That doesn't work, so I call the airport tower to seek authorization. The nice person on the end of the line informs me that because it is a commercial (read: for hire) operation, authorization can only be given through the online portal.

Here's the part that has me seeing red:

They then went on to inform me that the only thing a hobbyist, (not insured, no formal training, or Part 107 license) has to do at the same location/ time is notify the tower of operation details (altitude, time frame, contact ph #, etc) and receive an IMMEDIATE authorization or denial FROM THE TOWER. So I call the tower back, NOTIFY the tower of my flight parameters and get immediate authorization with a request to call them by phone, before and after the flight(s.)

So the FAA rules, in current form, allow for an untrained hobbyist to fly in Class D airspace, virtually immediately, with one phone call to the tower, while a trained, FAA licensed UAS pilot must receive authorization within 90 days from a bureaucrat in a distant office. And the only difference between the two, is that the qualified pilot being grounded is paid to fly, and the UNQUALIFIED pilot, with unqualified equipment is free to fly on the honor system? And the FAA has established this system for safety purposes!? Bulls**t. And some of the whack jobs in here rail against supposed Part 107 violators being such a mortal danger to the general populace when the FAA obviously couldn't GAF as long as they aren't being paid.

A long time ago, I was told that when something doesn't make sense, to "follow the money." And also, "The Golden Rule," which is: "The one with the gold, makes the rules."

Because of this circumstance, Part 107 appears to be nothing more than a sham to benefit larger-scale production companies by limiting access to smaller ones which are more likely to operate on an abbreviated timeline, while inadvertently, (or not,) encouraging clandestine, commercial UAS operation.
not playing that game
One thing is for sure: Allowing untrained hobbyists to fly on a moment's notice, in the same airspace that a licensed operator needs excessive bureaucratic scrutiny, undermines the legitimacy of the entire FAA Part 107 licensing process. And some of you guys ***** about Joe Hobbyist stealing your work? Thank the FAA for allowing them in the air while they keep you grounded.

Or am I missing something?
Yea, those "hobbyist" are not hobbyist. They are commercial operators who know about those little tricks. I know of at least 3 of them operating in San Diego, Ca. One of them won't even register his drone !!! I will quote him "That's all ********. I'm not playing that game. I'll fly were and when I want." He flies a Yunkee or however you spell it and he is in his late 60's. The most infuriating part is that all these guys have more money and time than they know what to do with. They are just *** holes who don't care. Who cares if they cost others their livelihood, they have theirs. That's how they get the jobs (that they don't need). They can do it right now !!! I have lost contracts because they can be there in an hour where I have to do all the required work before I can even give them a quote to fly. And then there is DJI who is even worse.
 
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Yea, those "hobbyist" are not hobbyist. They are commercial operators who know about those little tricks. I know of at least 3 of them operating in San Diego, Ca. One of them won't even register his drone !!! I will quote him "That's all ********. I'm not playing that game. I'll fly were and when I want." He flies a Yunkee or however you spell it and he is in his late 60's. The most infuriating part is that all these guys have more money and time than they know what to do with. They are just *** holes who don't care. Who cares if they cost others their livelihood, they have theirs. That's how they get the jobs (that they don't need). They can do it right now !!! I have lost contracts because they can be there in an hour where I have to do all the required work before I can even give them a quote to fly. And then there is DJI who is even worse.
I charge 50% upfront and no refunds if cancelled outside of a 14 day period. Within the 14 day period they get their money back less $250 or 10%. This insures when being booked I get paid for my time. The ones that I find doing it illegally I simply tell their clients that they can be sued should something go wrong. Then I will tell them to check the local laws and give them the local FSDO phone number. It gets real fun when the "hobbyist" is there or can hear me and starts to argue with me or gets angry with me. [emoji23]
 
This is nothing new and has been the way since 333 exemptions came out. The big question is, Did you fly the job?
No I did not. The real-estate company went with the "hobbyist". He was cheaper and was willing to fly right then and there. I informed the realestate company of the legalities and they did not care. They thought I was crazy and did not know what I was talking about. "A person does not need a license to take pictures of a house." as they were informed by the hobbyist. I was trying to scam them !
 
Yea, those "hobbyist" are not hobbyist. They are commercial operators who know about those little tricks. I know of at least 3 of them operating in San Diego, Ca. One of them won't even register his drone !!! I will quote him "That's all ********. I'm not playing that game. I'll fly were and when I want." He flies a Yunkee or however you spell it and he is in his late 60's. The most infuriating part is that all these guys have more money and time than they know what to do with. They are just *** holes who don't care. Who cares if they cost others their livelihood, they have theirs. That's how they get the jobs (that they don't need). They can do it right now !!! I have lost contracts because they can be there in an hour where I have to do all the required work before I can even give them a quote to fly. And then there is DJI who is even worse.

I've been a licensed contractor for over 20 years so I appreciate the bureaucracy that qualifies, legitimizes, and polices its genre. But what the FAA has set up is not that. Doubly so because they claim it's all for the noble purpose of public safety. When I had to test and qualify, and demonstrate aptitude, in order to operate as a plumbing contractor in my state, the Construction Industry Licensing Board conferred to me the privilege and ability to engage in commerce in my industry, while at the same time prohibiting others not qualified from doing so whether they are compensated or not. The FAA has turned this principle on its head, and because of this, how can you not blame those who refuse to participate in a bureaucracy that is established for a purpose other than
A. What it is stated for. And
B. Establishes rules against your ability to function safely in your industry for no other apparent reason than to inhibit reasonable commerce?

Who is the real bad guy here?
 
I've been a licensed contractor for over 20 years so I appreciate the bureaucracy that qualifies, legitimizes, and polices its genre. But what the FAA has set up is not that. Doubly so because they claim it's all for the noble purpose of public safety. When I had to test and qualify, and demonstrate aptitude, in order to operate as a plumbing contractor in my state, the Construction Industry Licensing Board conferred to me the privilege and ability to engage in commerce in my industry, while at the same time prohibiting others not qualified from doing so whether they are compensated or not. The FAA has turned this principle on its head, and because of this, how can you not blame those who refuse to participate in a bureaucracy that is established for a purpose other than
A. What it is stated for. And
B. Establishes rules against your ability to function safely in your industry for no other apparent reason than to inhibit reasonable commerce?

Who is the real bad guy here?
One question, If you were standing in front of a client, having gone through the trouble to do your job legally and the right way, and someone came up to your client and said they could do it for half the price because they know how but don't have the licenses to do it. Would you be angry? I can vouch for the inherent dangers the "hobbyist" pose first hand. I was one of them and thought there was absolutely no way I would ever get my license or register my drone. I watched a friend of mine crash his drone after hitting some power lines. That drone not only burst into flames but it caught a field on fire and threatened several houses, cars and peoples lives in those houses. People don't understand that one Phantom crashes on a roof of a house and catches that house on fire or hits a helicopter causing a crash or falls on someone because they didn't know simple FAA rules, that could not only kill someone but could ruin their life as well. I can 100% say that for the most part the FAA Part 107 rules are there for a good reason. You may not like them and will attempt to find any bias excuse to justify not following them. The truth is the rules are not perfect but they are there to provide some structure and safety for others. Anyone who says they are not is simply mad they have to actually follow them. So I blame the person not following the rules when everyone else has to.
 
Your scenario doesn't wash. Getting undercut is a part of business. Getting undercut by those who havent made your investment because they don't abide by the rules is another smarmy part of business. I've had both happen more times than I care to remember over the past 2 decades. But, having the controlling authority penalize those who follow the rules, and thereby benefit those who don't, is unique and unexcusable.
 
Your scenario doesn't wash. Getting undercut is a part of business. Getting undercut by those who havent made your investment because they don't abide by the rules is another smarmy part of business. I've had both happen more times than I care to remember over the past 2 decades. But, having the controlling authority penalize those who follow the rules, and thereby benefit those who don't, is unique and unexcusable.
Oh, I agree with that statement in that the FAA needs to start properly punishing the ones who do not follow the rules. But that don't mean the rules are bunk. They are there for safety. It is inexcusable to let someone who shoots down a drone off scott free. If they can hold me accountable to the letter of the law for having the certification then they should do the same to others.
 
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The problem is the rule(s) in the OP ARE bunk, and NOT there for safety. That is the blame of the FAA and no one else.

Example:
Qualified, Part 107 UAS pilot wants to fly safely in the shadow of a busy class D airport.
Not allowed until protracted scrutiny by distant bureaucrat.

Unqualified, uneducated, hobbyist wants to fly in the same, busy, manned airspace.
Call the tower, receive authorization immediately, go flying!

I did the math and calculating the glide slope ratio and distance, aircraft would be flying directly overhead at about 250'. Several of the aircraft that were directly overhead at the time were lower than that even though I'm confident they were notified by the tower there was drone activity there.

So don't tell me the FAA's primary concern is safety, at least when it comes to flying drones in controlled airspace, 'cause if you're not part 107, go ahead!
 
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The problem is the rule(s) in the OP ARE bunk, and NOT there for safety. That is the blame of the FAA and no one else.

Example:
Qualified, Part 107 UAS pilot wants to fly safely in the shadow of a busy class D airport.
Not allowed until protracted scrutiny by distant bureaucrat.

Unqualified, uneducated, hobbyist wants to fly in the same, busy, manned airspace.
Call the tower, receive authorization immediately, go flying!

I did the math and calculating the glide slope ratio and distance, aircraft would be flying directly overhead at about 250'. Several of the aircraft that were directly overhead at the time were lower than that even though I'm confident they were notified by the tower there was drone activity there.

So don't tell me the FAA's primary concern is safety, at least when it comes to flying drones in controlled airspace, 'cause if you're not part 107, go ahead!
I am amazed at the lack of knowledge you displayed there. I am not trying to be rude or ignorant but I can guarantee that a "hobbyist" is not going to receive authorization to fly in class d, b, c airspaces. As for us "Qualified, Part 107 UAS pilots" yes, they do hold us to a higher standard since we have been through the training, we are expected to know the rules better. Here is the problem with your methodology. It doesn't matter who is flying, inherent risk is present when you involve a drone and manned aircraft no matter where it is. If that drone was to fly off, and trust me they do, and fly into a manned aircraft you would be wishing you listened to that distant bureaucrat. I fail to see any logic in the comment you're making about the rules being bunk. furthermore, the anti-authority stance is never a good or reasonable arguing point.
 
You need to work on that reading comprehension a little bit and then you can "be amazed" at your own ignorance.

I related an incident as it happened, and quoted ATC and FAA officials, which policy has also been substantiated in other threads in this forum, so perhaps you should get off your high horse and open your eyes to reality and quit the virtue signaling. Then and maybe then you'll be able to see things for what they are apart from some Quixotic fantasy.
 
You need to work on that reading comprehension a little bit and then you can "be amazed" at your own ignorance.

I related an incident as it happened, and quoted ATC and FAA officials, which policy has also been substantiated in other threads in this forum, so perhaps you should get off your high horse and open your eyes to reality and quit the virtue signaling. Then and maybe then you'll be able to see things for what they are apart from some Quixotic fantasy.

Listen, I am not going to sit and argue with you when you don't even have your facts straight. A hobbyist is not allowed to fly within 5 nm of an airport. If you know part 107 then you know that class D airspace is usually within the 5-mile radius of the airport.
img0015.png

For the hobbyist to get clearance they would need to file for authorization providing the FAA with their cert number just as you and I. Now to point out one thing here. You were originally mad because you didn't get an immediate authorization from ATC when you know full and well that that's not the process. It is highly unlikely and I would have to say never happened that the hobbyist got clearance like you said. You are just mad that you didn't get the gig because you have to follow the rules. Did I leave anything out? No. You, Sir are the prime example of anti-authority. You expect that since you don't like a rule it is bunk and should not matter. Well, guess what? It does. I hope you can look past your anger and see how dangerous it is for you to act this way as a professional. Not only dangerous to you but everyone you fly around. Next, you will say that it is bunk that you can't fly over people or out of VLOS. Take a step back and look at it logically. If you still don't see the issue then I suggest you should turn in your certification to the FAA since it means so little to you. Have a wonderful night.
 
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No I did not. The real-estate company went with the "hobbyist". He was cheaper and was willing to fly right then and there. I informed the realestate company of the legalities and they did not care. They thought I was crazy and did not know what I was talking about. "A person does not need a license to take pictures of a house." as they were informed by the hobbyist. I was trying to scam them !
It's your duty as a citizen and a licensee to stand there, film the hobbyist breaking the law, and turn it over to the FAA.

I'm being facetious or course, but oh how I'd love to turn in some of these people. Really, I would have called the sheriff to report it if it happened in front of me, but I doubt that it would have been be very effective. It's like reporting unlicensed contracting as a contractor (which I am also). It's a duty, but you have to pick your battles.
 
Listen, I am not going to sit and argue with you when you don't even have your facts straight. A hobbyist is not allowed to fly within 5 nm of an airport..

Huh? Of course they can, with prior notification. That is distinct from, and far easier than, a part 107 authorization. I think that is the whole point of this thread and the reason so many licensed 107 pilots think the regulations are upside down.
 
It's everywhere, the upside down regulating.
In the Netherlands for instance, Joe Hobbyist is allowed to fly within meters of a highway, as long as he's not directly above it. Us fully licensed operators have to apply for an exemption, after writing a procedure that first has to be approved, which take at least 90 days, even to fly within 150m of that same highway. We even have to hire professional traffic regulators to lower the max speed in some instances, taking the cost of a highway shoot to absurd levels.

It's an absurd situation.
Also, Joe Hobbyist only has to answer to local police, who don't even know what is illegal and what not, our CAA doesn't care. If I forget one step in my procedures I get the air police on my doorstep and a hell of a procedure/process to keep my license.
 
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Listen, I am not going to sit and argue with you when you don't even have your facts straight. A hobbyist is not allowed to fly within 5 nm of an airport. If you know part 107 then you know that class D airspace is usually within the 5-mile radius of the airport.
img0015.png

For the hobbyist to get clearance they would need to file for authorization providing the FAA with their cert number just as you and I. Now to point out one thing here. You were originally mad because you didn't get an immediate authorization from ATC when you know full and well that that's not the process. It is highly unlikely and I would have to say never happened that the hobbyist got clearance like you said. You are just mad that you didn't get the gig because you have to follow the rules. Did I leave anything out? No. You, Sir are the prime example of anti-authority. You expect that since you don't like a rule it is bunk and should not matter. Well, guess what? It does. I hope you can look past your anger and see how dangerous it is for you to act this way as a professional. Not only dangerous to you but everyone you fly around. Next, you will say that it is bunk that you can't fly over people or out of VLOS. Take a step back and look at it logically. If you still don't see the issue then I suggest you should turn in your certification to the FAA since it means so little to you. Have a wonderful night.

Hobbyists are allowed to fly within 5 miles of an airport as long as they notify the airport. Read the operating rules section of the Getting Started Guide.

Screen Shot 2017-03-16 at 7.23.02 AM.png
 

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