T600-D FCC####1410 vs, T601 FCC####1510

[MrDRC]

So I am reading all of this and have a question that is more real world. So while in the military I worked on Radar, Transmitters, Receivers, etc on H-3 and H-60 air-frames. I took a 12 month long course in advanced math to figure out specs on wave-guides, antennas, etc also. If you have a transmitter that has more power (good, bad, indifferent conditions) you will have more range. This is fact and through math this can be shown.

Seeing as you have some formal training I posted this below in the Inspire forum regarding another persons questions about the 600 bird vs the 601. Does it make any sense to you? I have minimal experience which is limited to being an electrical hobbyist but do my conclusions ring some validity?
------------------------------------------
From everything I've learned after "EXTENSIVE" research, range is not going to change much if at all. The only advantage I can see with a higher powered 601 is you "might" be able to cut through noise ceilings in the 2.4ghz spectrum due to the higher powered transmitter. There are a lot of devices in the 2.4ghz spectrum. HAM radio operators are allowed to broadcast at over 60dBm which could (depending on channel) impact a 600 bird if in close proximity. FM radio, baby monitors, cordless phones, some blue tooth devices, wireless video transmitters, microwaves, wifi, VOIP base stations, etc, etc can all use the 2.4ghz spectrum to varying power degrees. Granted some of these dont compete with the power output of a 601 (FCC 1510) bird but a 600 bird falls closer to the max power output on a number of these devices in US controlled FCC areas.
---------------------------------------------

What say you?

 

[speckfisher]

I just go finished having a lengthy conversation with DJI California.
The gentlemen replied as follows:

"Regardless of the RC, be it an, "A", "B", "C"........after the latest firmware update they will all send and receive signals the same regardless of which model the RC is. The sending and receiving power is a software not hardware."

"Regardless of the AC model be it a 1410, or a 1510. The transmitter on the 1510 is from a different vendor.......same power. The software also makes both AC the same......no difference what so ever."

On another note, I asked about continuous auto focus and," He said the are considering adding that to a future software update."

Please don't take my word for it, call them, they actually answer the phone. I didn't wait 2 minutes.

 

[patrice]

i m sory to re write a question but in france we are with ce protocol,
there is different inspire or the same inspire make the difference of place ?
or there is a switch ?
to switch betewen CE or FCC ?
thanks

 

[MrDRC]

"Regardless of the AC model be it a 1410, or a 1510. The transmitter on the 1510 is from a different vendor.......same power. The software also makes both AC the same......no difference what so ever."

I have no doubt they believe what they told you but that goes contradicts the FCC documents on the 1410:

Test Report - Test Report FCC ID: SS3-WM6101410 Microsoft Word - RDG140930010-00A.doc

Pages 4, 10-12 have relevant test data done by the FCC and lists the equipment they used to calculate the output. Not sure if a handheld spectrum analyzer would work assuming it covers the range and power output limits but I would guess a much more expensive meter would be necessary to accurately determine the transmitter output. Also not sure what kind of latitude the FCC gives in these approvals but there is no doubt the unit they tested has conducted power of 24.07 dBm. Below the 1510 unit they tested.

 

[speckfisher]

I have no doubt they believe what they told you but that goes contradicts the FCC documents on the 1410:

Test Report - Test Report FCC ID: SS3-WM6101410 Microsoft Word - RDG140930010-00A.doc

Pages 4, 10-12 have relevant test data done by the FCC and lists the equipment they used to calculate the output. Not sure if a handheld spectrum analyzer would work assuming it covers the range and power output limits but I would guess a much more expensive meter would be necessary to accurately determine the transmitter output. Also not sure what kind of latitude the FCC gives in these approvals but there is no doubt the unit they tested has conducted power of 24.07 dBm. Below the 1510 unit they tested.

It's as if they could have added more dBm's to the the AC but so far they have restricted it's power range to that of the previous model by software, so they supposedly operate the same.......I have no clue.

 

[speckfisher]

Well smack me in the face. I spoke with Peter A.......he wouldn't give me his last name, at DJI California. He is the man in charge.......humm.

I requested an exchange - my 600 for a 601, or shall we say my 1410 for a 1510. You should have been a fly on the wall. Of course he was the third guy I spoke with, and yes I was mysteriously disconnected twice prior, that is when we started crunching dBm and mw differences.

No go for a trade. I even told him I didn't expect something for nothing, I'd pay $300 to exchange mine. Still no go. I explained that they should have made a clear model number revision so as to allow both the vendors and customers the ability to purchase what they want. We could care less about spending a few hundred more on a better equipped bird. Here is the RUB. I have spoken to another friend that ordered two I1 at the same time as me and one of his is a 1510.

He says....."The downrange distance is the same, however the 1510 is much better than the 1410 when your signal is shooting through the tops of trees." So to those fellows that say they are the same and have tested both, please post if you indeed tested the two through trees, not just clear air. He also tried to get an exchange, no go.

Guys, DJI is a shady bunch of rascals. I'm in and I'm also done......I will not invest in other DJI PRODUCTS. When this one dies, that's it. I'll just spend real money and get FLYHIGHUSA to custom build me a bird for my Sony's and Canon's.

PS: Have you talked to someone and you just new beyond a shadow of a doubt, because of the responses given, this individual had already had this conversation many times before, yet they continued to deny they knew anything about what was being talked about.......look lying and misrepresentation will make me close the door at Mach 10.

 

[kcobello]

After reading some of this, would you think that if they admit there is a difference and exchange one, what will happen? Everyone will want an exchange. We bought a 600. I ended up with one Transmitter (Flight controller) being a higher power and one Transmitter (Camera controller) lower power or so everyone says.

 

[speckfisher]

Well, we are Americans, getting hood winked is who we are. Paying more to improve something is also who we are. I merely gave DJI the opportunity to make some money off of all of the 1410 owners.......oh well.

I will have both the AC and the RC's modified, it's just money. I've spent 5K with DJI, big deal,,,,,most of us have spent 5K or more on a single lens. It's all just equipment, no personal attachment.

I will spend my money on American ingenuity next time........screw me on a deal, my bad, but you are not willing to take my money and improve my equipment for better performance. That's not for me.

 

[FlyHighUSA]

I just go finished having a lengthy conversation with DJI California.
The gentlemen replied as follows:

"Regardless of the RC, be it an, "A", "B", "C"........after the latest firmware update they will all send and receive signals the same regardless of which model the RC is. The sending and receiving power is a software not hardware."

"Regardless of the AC model be it a 1410, or a 1510. The transmitter on the 1510 is from a different vendor.......same power. The software also makes both AC the same......no difference what so ever."

On another note, I asked about continuous auto focus and," He said the are considering adding that to a future software update."

Please don't take my word for it, call them, they actually answer the phone. I didn't wait 2 minutes.

Couldn't agree more!!! I fly both versions and I get the very same distance with both of them

 

[Yapper915]

Seeing as you have some formal training I posted this below in the Inspire forum regarding another persons questions about the 600 bird vs the 601. Does it make any sense to you? I have minimal experience which is limited to being an electrical hobbyist but do my conclusions ring some validity?
------------------------------------------
From everything I've learned after "EXTENSIVE" research, range is not going to change much if at all. The only advantage I can see with a higher powered 601 is you "might" be able to cut through noise ceilings in the 2.4ghz spectrum due to the higher powered transmitter. There are a lot of devices in the 2.4ghz spectrum. HAM radio operators are allowed to broadcast at over 60dBm which could (depending on channel) impact a 600 bird if in close proximity. FM radio, baby monitors, cordless phones, some blue tooth devices, wireless video transmitters, microwaves, wifi, VOIP base stations, etc, etc can all use the 2.4ghz spectrum to varying power degrees. Granted some of these dont compete with the power output of a 601 (FCC 1510) bird but a 600 bird falls closer to the max power output on a number of these devices in US controlled FCC areas.
---------------------------------------------

What say you?

I agree with you. As I said you will get more range but this is dependent on numerous atmospheric conditions as well as interference within the spectrum that you are flying in. You are also correct that depending on proximity to certain devices this could affect your range/communication from remote to AC no matter what power you are transmitting at. As you stated the extra power can help cut through these transmissions, there is still interference.

Your research per the numbers that you saw in the document is probably spot on (i haven't done it that closely). In the end your comparison between the 600 and 601 might come into play if you are launching in the middle of an apartment complex, surrounded on all sides with phones, wifi, baby montiors, etc. This really doesn't meet any of my idea of a "normal" launching zone. (I could be wrong).

I know that at some point we all may need to fly over populated areas to either film, take photos, or just be playing around. In a normal situation you should not really have enough transmitted waves, in the 2.4 GHz spectrum in the air to cause a noticeable difference.

If you do fall into the category above where you are launching in downtown NYC, then you are taking the drone into your own hands and the liability at that point doesn't fall onto DJI for transmitting power, etc. As at this point you are now breaking an FAA law and you can't throw this back on the manufacturer.

 

[Yapper915]

I have no doubt they believe what they told you but that goes contradicts the FCC documents on the 1410:

Test Report - Test Report FCC ID: SS3-WM6101410 Microsoft Word - RDG140930010-00A.doc

Pages 4, 10-12 have relevant test data done by the FCC and lists the equipment they used to calculate the output. Not sure if a handheld spectrum analyzer would work assuming it covers the range and power output limits but I would guess a much more expensive meter would be necessary to accurately determine the transmitter output. Also not sure what kind of latitude the FCC gives in these approvals but there is no doubt the unit they tested has conducted power of 24.07 dBm. Below the 1510 unit they tested.

I read this and yes, this is standard lab report on output of a device. Now let me kind of play devils advocate here just to put another train of thought.

While I was in the military and we would have birds come back from flights the pilots would create a list of complaints, gripes, bulls&$*, and sometimes there was a real issue We would then take the unit back (we are going to use a transmit/receive unit here) and start testing. Our Intermediate department would test and get a result. They would then compare that result to both the spec's for the unit and also the FCC limitations (Yes the military has to abide by these also).

Depending on the variance they might have to test again, and again, and again, and again until the variance is hit. This is where my question comes in.

If you read through the test report and also look through the documents you will find this paragrah in the test document that is linked above (The entire FCC document area) >

The
SZ DJI TECHNOLOGY CO., LTD’s product, model number:
T600(FCC ID: SS3-WM6101410)
(the"EUT") in this report was aDJI Inspire 1,
which was measured approximately: 46.0cm (L) x 44.0 cm (W)
x 31.0 cm(H), rated input voltage: DC 22.2V from lithium battery.

No where in the document does the model "1510" appear (search the PDF).

Possibly I am wrong and just didn't search correctly.

 

[MrDRC]

One thing I failed to mention regarding the labeling on the V2's is the outside black band that surrounds the case. There is a youtube video posted on DJI's site forum showing the 1510 code sticker clearly on the outer case black paper band.

Based on the feedback in this topic, the youtube video on DJI's forum, both my own V2's these facts point to some labeling shenanigans at DJI regarding the V2's. Just look at all the discrepancies:

- V1's have one sticker on the case. Dont know what was on the outside black case band. Mad Angler might remember as he is the one who stated his V1 case only had one case sticker.
- The first V2 I received had two different case stickers. One marked V2 and one marked Inspire 1 with two different date codes. There was no product sticker on the outside black band except the Iphone/Ipad compatibility label.
- The RMA V2 I received had three different case stickers. Two marked V2 (different date codes again) and one marked Inspire 1 and only the Iphone/Ipad compatibility label on the black case band.
- The Youtube video on DJI's forum has the 1510 label on the black band as well as the Iphone/Ipad compatibility sticker.

The evidence is really pilling up against DJI on this 1410/1510 issue and their mysterious claims they are both the exact same bird when everything gathered to date indicates they are not.

I attempted to research the transmitter chips pictured in the FCC filings but unfortunately they are not clear enough to get the exact model #'s and could only obtain cursory information. Nothing related to power output but I find it rather disingenuous that DJI would claim they can increase the output power of a 1410 with software. All the currently gathered evidence fly's in the face of that assertion.

My retailer is giving me full credit for my purchase. I'll fly my Phantom's until I decide if I will wait until the modified V1's are flushed from inventory so I get a properly powered and fully spec'ed 1510 V2. Maybe I'll just go in another direction completely but I think the Inspire is a good platform. I just dont like what DJI is doing with this power and labeling issue and more importantly, all the inconsistent information being put out by their own employees, support staff and beta testers are littered with contradictions.

 

[MrDRC]

No where in the document does the model "1510" appear (search the PDF).

Possibly I am wrong and just didn't search correctly.

This is the filing for the V2 1510.

FCC ID SS3-WM6101510 by SZ DJI TECHNOLOGY CO., LTD for DJI Inspire 1 V2.0

Sorry for the confusion but I only posted the link to the FCC test file sections in the first link for the 1410 due to the power output question at hand.

Here is the complete page link for the 1410 that clearly states Inspire 1, no mention of V2.0 like the above 1510 link yet 1410's are being shipped all over the US as V2's that dont comply with their filing for a V2.0.

FCC ID SS3-WM6101410 by SZ DJI TECHNOLOGY CO., LTD for DJI Inspire 1

 

[Mad_angler1]

This is the filing for the V2 1510.

FCC ID SS3-WM6101510 by SZ DJI TECHNOLOGY CO., LTD for DJI Inspire 1 V2.0

Sorry for the confusion but I only posted the link to the FCC test file sections in the first link for the 1410 due to the power output question at hand.

Here is the complete page link for the 1410 that clearly states Inspire 1, no mention of V2.0 like the above 1510 link yet 1410's are being shipped all over the US as V2's that dont comply with their filing for a V2.0.

FCC ID SS3-WM6101410 by SZ DJI TECHNOLOGY CO., LTD for DJI Inspire 1

Someone contact the FCC and ask what information is relevant

The V2 is in the Name and additional notes

The Model Model Number and FCC Id are correct

This is what's important

They could call it the Inspire 1 Pink edition or perhaps the Inspire 1 Pro

notice no FCC submission for the Pro or the black edition , why ? Because the name is marketing,


FCC important info model = T600 or T601 and FCC ID

As these correctly match so they are in complete compliance.

 

[MrDRC]

Someone contact the FCC and ask what information is relevant

The V2 is in the Name and additional notes

The Model Model Number and FCC Id are correct

This is what's important

They could call it the Inspire 1 Pink edition or perhaps the Inspire 1 Pro

notice no FCC submission for the Pro or the black edition , why ? Because the name is marketing,


FCC important info model = T600 or T601 and FCC ID

As these correctly match so they are in complete compliance.

Almost all of what you just posted is absolutely untrue based on my conversation 5 minutes ago with a consumer information specialist at 1-888-225-5322. After she reviewed my quickly explained issue and giving her the above links (they actually look it up by company code and equipment class) the specialist encouraged me to file an online complaint. She also said enforcement might fall under the FTC (deceptive business practices) or DOJ and encouraged me to file complaints there as well.

Here is a quick synopsis of what she said. All they mainly care about is approved frequency and power transmission aceross the frequency. She said it would be violating FCC rules if a 1410 was broadcasting in the approved frequency at a higher output rating than what was approved.

I also brought up what you posted about Pro's, and she asked if there was any frequency change or power output changes and I said I didn't know. If the camera is the only change that does not fall under their purview because that device is not emitting power across a frequency.She even went on to say many companies call different products different things as long as they meet their FCC submission no foul. Her "opinion" regarding the V2 is that DJI can not be selling a product called a V2 unless it meets the specs approved by the FCC.

Now look at the label section submitted to the FCC for a 1410 and its clearly shows a T600 label. According to the specialist they can not sell 1410 models that exceed output power over the approved frequency. Now look at the label section of the 1510 and it clearly shows T601.

Not sure if I am going to go to the trouble of filing a complaint with the FCC, FTC and/or DOJ as I no longer have a V2 in my hands and she was unsure if I had a valid complaint because I didnt own one. Of course she stated she was only an information specialist and all complaints move to another department but there is no doubt whatsoever if DJI is selling 1410 as V2's they are not compliant with their V2 submission. They are selling modified V1's which she seemed to feel was fine as long as the maximum approved transmission power within the frequency didnt change.

 

[Mad_angler1]

Your Post


Here is a quick synopsis of what she said. All they mainly care about is approved frequency and power transmission aceross the frequency. She said it would be violating FCC rules if a 1410 was broadcasting in the approved frequency at a higher output rating than what was approved.

No where has it ever been stated, proved or suggested that the T600 FCC 1410 is outputting more than its tested output


I also brought up what you posted about Pro's, and she asked if there was any frequency change or power output changes and I said I didn't know. If the camera is the only change that does not fall under their purview because that device is not emitting power across a frequency.She even went on to say many companies call different products different things as long as they meet their FCC submission no foul. Her "opinion" regarding the V2 is that DJI can not be selling a product called a V2 unless it meets the specs approved by the FCC.

You have just contradicted you self

You said
1: If the camera is the only change that does not fall under their purview because that device is not emitting power across a frequency.She even went on to say many companies call different products different things as long as they meet their FCC submission no foul.

then

2: Her "opinion" regarding the V2 is that DJI can not be selling a product called a V2 unless it meets the specs approved by the FCC.

Direct contrediction, they can call it what they want as long as the Model Number e.g. T600 and FCC e.g. 1410 are the same and its output is as per the filing with the FCC

Now look at the label section submitted to the FCC for a 1410 and its clearly shows a T600 label. According to the specialist they can not sell 1410 models that exceed output power over the approved frequency. Now look at the label section of the 1510 and it clearly shows T601.

No where has it ever been said or proven the 1410 T600 outputs more than its legal limit as per the FCC submision

Not sure if I am going to go to the trouble of filing a complaint with the FCC, FTC and/or DOJ as I no longer have a V2 in my hands and she was unsure if I had a valid complaint because I didnt own one. Of course she stated she was only an information specialist and all complaints move to another department but there is no doubt whatsoever if DJI is selling 1410 as V2's they are not compliant with their V2 submission. They are selling modified V1's which she seemed to feel was fine as long as the maximum approved transmission power within the frequency didnt change.


See my responses in red and below

DJI have 2 official models as per the below

T600 with FCC ending 1410, this outputs maximum of 255mw
T601 with FCC ending 1510 this outputs a maximum of 931mw

The V2 is part of the name and the information i have been provided states its part of the name and notes as as such no FCC filings are incorrect

This Tinfoil had is covering a small city now so I'm really done,

Good luck on the ghost hunt

 

[MrDRC]

Your Post


DJI have 2 official models as per the below

T600 with FCC ending 1410, this outputs maximum of 255mw
T601 with FCC ending 1510 this outputs a maximum of 931mw

The V2 is part of the name and the information i have been provided states its part of the name and notes as as such no FCC filings are incorrect

This Tinfoil had is covering a small city now so I'm really done,

Good luck on the ghost hunt

Not sure why is it so hard to understand for some. T600 is a V1 as stated in the FCC approval, T601 is a V2 as stated in the FCC approval. Its truly as simple as that. The V2 is NOT part of the name on T600 FCC approval.

Contrary to your assertion, DJI staff members on their own forum have stated 1410 and 1510 are the exact same. DJI-Tim, DJI-xxxx have mentioned it multiple times. You've seen the forum because you had a screen shot of their posts on RCG and its been mentioned by other DJI reps and/or beta testers on RCG. Now we have DJI - California telling form members here that a 1410's power output is increased in software. No tinfoil hats required. The evidence is prett clear but I cant help anyone in denial of the facts.

 

[ianwood]

FCC data and naming convention aside, is there any empirical data that supports an actual functional difference? Something that shows less range or more vulnerability to RF noise? I see none in this thread.

Is there any evidence to support the OP's claim that mismatched RC and Inspires will degrade performance?

Or is this a tempest in a tea cup? Like the P3 motor outrage on phantompilots.com.

 

[Stealthmatt]

4 ways to check

 

[ianwood]

I'll repeat my question just in case someone missed it and might have something useful:

Is there any evidence to support the OP's claim that mismatched RC and Inspires will degrade performance?

Or is this a tempest in a tea cup? Like the P3 motor outrage on phantompilots.com.