X3 or X5?

[andrew259]

X5 has no advantage for video? Can I politely but strongly disagree??
Interchangeable lenses makes ALL the difference... Plus a zoom lens now.... I have both x3 and x5 (2 inspires) and hardly ever use the x3 any more....


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[damoncooper]

X5 has no advantage for video? Can I politely but strongly disagree??
Interchangeable lenses makes ALL the difference... Plus a zoom lens now.... I have both x3 and x5 (2 inspires) and hardly ever use the x3 any more....


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Sure, I'll grant that if you want swappable lenses, that's great. As for zoom, if you have to have it ok. You can also fly closer and that'll do for most folks.

 

[andrew259]

Ouch - well maybe - but perspective shift is quite important too!! Also noise is a factor - was filming Gary Player teeing off in South Africa and I couldn't be near for the noise... A nice 46mm lens would have made so much difference!


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[NBC]

I keep hearing about the 'new' dli camera with zoom. Is it going to happen?

 

[andrew259]

Zoom exists in the form of a supported Olympus 14-42m lens already.....


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[NBC]

Zoom exists in the form of a supported Olympus 14-42m lens already.....


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Many thanks. I did think that but keep hearing about this new camera by dji coming out next year. Must have got the wrong end of the stick.

 

[andrew259]

They may be planning something new... But the Olympus lens works quite well.


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[damoncooper]

X3 again. Ian Wood listed these issues from his first hand X5 experiences so far:

============

So far, the X5 in low light is untenable. The new firmware only made it worse. By day, at ISO 100, it works and takes a really good image. We shot all day on set with it yesterday and got some really good shots. There's still a lot of issues even in daylight:

* About 1 in 5 power ups, the focus slider didn't match the lens. It had to be set to ~5M to get infinity focus. All other times, infinity was where it was supposed to be. Reconfiguring the lens didn't help. Fortunately, we found workarounds to get focus when it happened. Focus should be only for the gimbal operator in 2 man operation.

* Focus / F stop, etc. resets. Every-time we powered up. ALL settings should be remembered between flights. ALL of them.

* Slave controller range is awful. This needs to be fixed. I end up looking over the 1st operator's shoulder when I should be deep in my screen. The controller itself works perfectly when used as primary.

* No F stop selection on occasional boot ups. Have to power cycle everything to get it to work again.

* Camera mode selection doesn't work on occasional boot ups. Selecting manual only to have it revert to aperture priority over and over. Power cycle everything and it works normally.

* New firmware default sharpening is excessive. Even -2 is bordering on too sharp. Previous firmware had it right.

* There's much more.

As for night time / low light, the list of issues is short but deadly. Compared against the GH4 and RX100IV, the X5 on the current firmware is not even close. Even GoPro and P3P are better. I have resorted to a using a P3P for night shots right now. Issues:

* Quality is poor.

* Serious gain noise.

* Serious flickering.

* Poor sensitivity.

 

[apsussex]

X3 again. Ian Wood listed these issues from his first hand X5 experiences so far:

============

So far, the X5 in low light is untenable. The new firmware only made it worse. By day, at ISO 100, it works and takes a really good image. We shot all day on set with it yesterday and got some really good shots. There's still a lot of issues even in daylight:

* About 1 in 5 power ups, the focus slider didn't match the lens. It had to be set to ~5M to get infinity focus. All other times, infinity was where it was supposed to be. Reconfiguring the lens didn't help. Fortunately, we found workarounds to get focus when it happened. Focus should be only for the gimbal operator in 2 man operation.

* Focus / F stop, etc. resets. Every-time we powered up. ALL settings should be remembered between flights. ALL of them.

* Slave controller range is awful. This needs to be fixed. I end up looking over the 1st operator's shoulder when I should be deep in my screen. The controller itself works perfectly when used as primary.

* No F stop selection on occasional boot ups. Have to power cycle everything to get it to work again.

* Camera mode selection doesn't work on occasional boot ups. Selecting manual only to have it revert to aperture priority over and over. Power cycle everything and it works normally.

* New firmware default sharpening is excessive. Even -2 is bordering on too sharp. Previous firmware had it right.

* There's much more.

As for night time / low light, the list of issues is short but deadly. Compared against the GH4 and RX100IV, the X5 on the current firmware is not even close. Even GoPro and P3P are better. I have resorted to a using a P3P for night shots right now. Issues:

* Quality is poor.

* Serious gain noise.

* Serious flickering.

* Poor sensitivity.

The first firmware with the X5 was brilliant, absolutely no issues at all, and aside from the bitrate, to me it was comparable with the GH4. Its a sad fact that they have gone backwards with this new firmware to the point that I am shocked it was actually released.

 

[damoncooper]

The first firmware with the X5 was brilliant, absolutely no issues at all, and aside from the bitrate, to me it was comparable with the GH4. Its a sad fact that they have gone backwards with this new firmware to the point that I am shocked it was actually released.

Unless you are shooting daylight stills, X3.

 

[MrDrone]

I am seriously considering buying an X3 to weather the storm until the X5 is back to a more workable state. Fortunately, I have the X5 on v1.0.0.30 ...

 

[ge0se]

The first firmware with the X5 was brilliant, absolutely no issues at all, and aside from the bitrate, to me it was comparable with the GH4. Its a sad fact that they have gone backwards with this new firmware to the point that I am shocked it was actually released.

I can confirm this statement to be true. Currently X5 is perfect for stills (large sensor + lens selection) but still has major video compression issues in certain scenarios (low light is a big problem among others). There are workarounds but it's a major hassle, that being said when filming conditions are perfect the image will be superior to X3, especially when you marry the camera move to proper lens you get very tasty shots. Currently X3 video compression seems to make best of 60 Mbps bandwidth limit but it's a matter of time until DJI irons out X5 camera firmware and it wont be painful to use it for video.

I currently hate working with X5 (more work to properly shoot and rescue low light/low saturation video) but results are better than X3, waiting on fixes from DJI to get a brake and start enjoying my work again.

 

[DennisR]

Isn't this a simple matter of depth of field? I assume this would be just like any stills camera.

Yes... exactly. These guys here saying this are not camera people. The X5 has to be used by someone with camera skills. The best thing i like about the X5 is there is no jello.

 

[Dr. Ifly Drones]

I've been watching this thread with great interest. I currently have 6 airframes (P2V+ all the way to a S1000+ with Canon 5D MIII) and my consistent fall back airframe is the Inspire 1 v2. I've been reading as much as possible about both the X3, X5 and X5R. When I meet with cinematographers to discuss services and format they almost always ask that I use the large format Canon on the S1000+. Part of this is because they KNOW that camera and it's capabilities. They don't know how long it takes to set up and operate. I've been involved in photography for over 30 years and feel that I have fairly good understanding of both the art and science of photography. I think the real question should be, what am I going to use this camera for? If you are a hobby flyer the information I've read suggest the X5 &X5R are likely more equipment than you need. If your camera needs to capture very high detail or, some of the artistic prowess of aperture changes and a zoom with the flexibility of interchangeable lenses, and you have the $$$ then, the X5R looks like the most flexible choice.

 

[White Airwolf]

I've been watching this thread with great interest. I currently have 6 airframes (P2V+ all the way to a S1000+ with Canon 5D MIII) and my consistent fall back airframe is the Inspire 1 v2. I've been reading as much as possible about both the X3, X5 and X5R. When I meet with cinematographers to discuss services and format they almost always ask that I use the large format Canon on the S1000+. Part of this is because they KNOW that camera and it's capabilities. They don't know how long it takes to set up and operate. I've been involved in photography for over 30 years and feel that I have fairly good understanding of both the art and science of photography. I think the real question should be, what am I going to use this camera for? If you are a hobby flyer the information I've read suggest the X5 &X5R are likely more equipment than you need. If your camera needs to capture very high detail or, some of the artistic prowess of aperture changes and a zoom with the flexibility of interchangeable lenses, and you have the $$$ then, the X5R looks like the most flexible choice.

I would tend to disagree with some of what you say.

The Canon 5DMlll camera is a stills camera first of all and it can make consumer quality video. Enough said.
Most people will be using a drone for wide shots and depth of field will have no impact. Having said that, I understand the need to get up close sometimes such as hydro electric workers on a pole and you want to get in real close with the background out of focus. I get that.
I have been in the business too for 30 years and I shoot with full frame Sony gear, the leader in TV technology and the most sought after company for professional gear. The Alexxa is used for movie making, but it is not generally used for day to day TV filming.
The Canon cameras whether they are the C300 or the 5D cameras, are only industrial or consumer quality. Mind you, they are good enough anyway for most aerial shots.
I think the big Octo drones carrying big cameras are on the way out due to safety regulations and other reasons.
What DJI is doing with their smaller cameras is impressive and I think the X5R will be adopted for aerial movie scenes because of its small size, safety net, and ease of use with the Inspire, relatively speaking. The X5R, with the ability to shoot RAW, for movie making will be a wonderful thing, but RAW for TV shows is a waste, as is the X5 non RAW, as it apparently has focus issues and sensitivity issues etc. The X3 is great as it is right now. I'm hoping they will up the bit rate to at least 100 mb/sec soon. The X5 is also 60 mb/sec. Unbelievable!

 

[WingmanPictures]

The X3 produces very poor 4K video due to not only the throttled bitrate but also the dreadful GOP structure and intraframe pulsing every 8 frames. This is a fact and not a subjective interpretation so I think your comment stating the X3 "produces awesome 4K imagery" is a little far fetched.

I have noticed a trend with most of your posts (I have looked back at many of them), and nearly every one of them appears to be aggressively asserting your condemnation of either peoples opinions or telling other forum members they do not know what they are talking about.
However, you do not back any of your statements up with coherent arguments giving any technical reasoning and yet you claim to have been 'in the business' longer than most people ever will be.
Perhaps a little less aggression and fewer scatter gun approach of posting "its rubbish, don't waste your money, no TV image will show the difference, grading is a waste of time, there is no such thing as 2.7k" etc will go some way to gaining some respect from other forum members.

I have been in the industry for 20 years. My last fil was shot on a Panasonic dx100 camera. A piece of xxxx compared to 4K cameras. Yet it played in theatres around the world and was distributed by paramount pictures and Warner bros. it's not what you shoot on it's how you tell the story that actually matters. I have the inspire x3 and love it. X5 would be good on spec better than the x3 but at the end of the day the pictures are still good enough for theatrical release. Hope this helps.

 

[WingmanPictures]

I would tend to disagree with some of what you say.

The Canon 5DMlll camera is a stills camera first of all and it can make consumer quality video. Enough said.
Most people will be using a drone for wide shots and depth of field will have no impact. Having said that, I understand the need to get up close sometimes such as hydro electric workers on a pole and you want to get in real close with the background out of focus. I get that.
I have been in the business too for 30 years and I shoot with full frame Sony gear, the leader in TV technology and the most sought after company for professional gear. The Alexxa is used for movie making, but it is not generally used for day to day TV filming.
The Canon cameras whether they are the C300 or the 5D cameras, are only industrial or consumer quality. Mind you, they are good enough anyway for most aerial shots.
I think the big Octo drones carrying big cameras are on the way out due to safety regulations and other reasons.
What DJI is doing with their smaller cameras is impressive and I think the X5R will be adopted for aerial movie scenes because of its small size, safety net, and ease of use with the Inspire, relatively speaking. The X5R, with the ability to shoot RAW, for movie making will be a wonderful thing, but RAW for TV shows is a waste, as is the X5 non RAW, as it apparently has focus issues and sensitivity issues etc. The X3 is great as it is right now. I'm hoping they will up the bit rate to at least 100 mb/sec soon. The X5 is also 60 mb/sec. Unbelievable!

Again I have to add that any camera, whether a dv camera or HD/4k Camera will and is good enough if you have a good story. I shoot my doco's now on a canon 1d and the inspire 1 v2 with x3. Networks don't care as long as your story rocks it's perfect.

 

[Bob Stekeur]

In the end it comes down to talent more than equipment, but good camera's do help

 

[WingmanPictures]

In the end it comes down to talent more than equipment, but good camera's do help

Yes I agree completely... It does take talent to do it right. Good point bob.