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Does d log and d cin effect raw footage ?

Discussion in 'Zenmuse X5R' started by Morrisey Video Production, Sep 28, 2016.

  1. Morrisey Video Production

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    this might of been brought up sorry if it was! I know the d log and d cin effect the SD proxy but does it do anything to the raw footage ? Also does the contrast sharp and saturation effect the raw footage ? Stupid question probably but just need some answers! Thnx guys !!!
     
  2. crnee

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    no. raw is recorded without color space/ color profile. it is applyed only on commpressed video files that are recorded to SD card.
    It is practical for projects where you don't need, or don't have time to "develop" raw footage but would like to have footage that offers certain degree of color correction, or for preview purposes, or like proxies in editing.
    to sum it up. if you use i.e. d-log it will be recorded to files on SD card, .mov or .mp4.
    raw will be recorded as it is and you will have to go trough Cinelight to export it or even make corrections there or apply color space/ profiles there.

    raw is color profile and WB blind :) hou can change that later in post.

    my serious projects workflow is to use commpressed files as preview and proxies, and export raw files to DNG sequence for later color corrections, grading and finalization.



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  3. Morrisey Video Production

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    Awesome man you answered my question perfectly !! Does the saturation/contrast/sharp fall under one of those terms "color space/color profile." So those settings don't effect the raw either. I am not very bright when it comes to the terminology. Thanks again!!! :) :)
     
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  4. Blacksails

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    I presumed that the raw footage was unaffected by dlog / cine too, but did a test yesterday.

    I set up a shot and filmed d cin, d log and none colour profiles at f1.7 100, 200 and 300 ISO for each. Then did the same for f2.0 etc etc. This was mainly to test out best cam settings for aperture, noise and what not.
    On the SD card, there are, obviously, noticeable differences between the different colour profiles, but I can tell you now that they certainly do affect the raw files. Obviously, they're raw files and so it doesn't matter too much, but dcin exposed the image quite a bit brighter than none or dlog on the raw footage, and this was consistent across all of my tests at different fstops.
    Colour also varied slightly between none and dlog, but only noticeable if looking for it. But, dcin was definitely exposing the footage more, noticeably so when played next the raw from one of the other two profiles.
    Again, its raw footage, so this extra exposure isn't really too much of an issue as it can be knocked back in the camraw settings and you still have all of your highlight detail etc.
    I just wonder what the camera is doing to cause this. The profiles shouldn't affect the raw at all, but they do, weirdly, even though just slight.
     
  5. Morrisey Video Production

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    Interesting... I've read all over it doesn't.. Good to know
     
  6. Morrisey Video Production

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    What about saturation color and sharp ?
     
  7. Blacksails

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    Haven't looked into saturation, sharpness or contrast properly yet. I'll be doing another test, playing around with that soon though, when I get a bit of time off from work
     
  8. ernst

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    Thank's for your effort,looking forward to see the results!
     
  9. ge0se

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    Color profile among with sharpness/saturation/contrast settings do not affect the raw footage in any way. It is strictly for H264 files saved to the microsd card.
     
  10. Blacksails

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    I'm sorry, it does. At the very least, exposure is. Set up a shot. F1.7, ISO 100 and shoot the same thing in none, dlog and dcin. Compare the raw files next to eachother. You will see a difference. It doesn't matter, as it's raw and can be pulled back down, but the fact is, they affect it.
     
  11. ge0se

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    It affects the metadata but not the RAW files, which means, it doesnt affect the RAW footage which was the actual question.
     
  12. crnee

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    I have to agree with ge0se.
    Picture profiles shoudn't affect raw footage. That is the purpose of raw shooting. To have neutral footage with lots of information so you can push the limits more and set up color profile, wb etc. in post.
    I haven't seen any differences.


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  13. Blacksails

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    I agree that the profiles shouldn't affect the raw, but I have done a side by side test. Dcin consistently exposes the raw more. You will not notice this unless you do a side by side test.
    It does not affect it in the obvious way it does for the h.264 files, it only affects exposure. It doesn't really matter though, due to the fact that, as you said, you can push the raw around a lot more.

    I know it's kinda a moot point, as the exposure can be pulled back down on the raw files, but the original question was do the colour profiles affect the raw... and on the latest osmo raw firmware, dcin does affect raw exposure, even though it's not an issue to deal with as it isn't necessarily baked in. Apologies, I'm being pedantic.
     
  14. ge0se

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    Blacksails, no need to apologize as you may have a point here. The truth is beyond what I may think I know :), I dont care to be right just cause I said something before, I care to know the truth and if you found something the camera does I want to know it.

    There is something that may cause confusion though which is - many RAW programs (Premiere, CameraRAW, DaVinci Resolve, etc) have ability to read metadata, which is purely setting values embedded into the raw files. More often it reads White Balance, Offset and Exposure settings, some cameras also write Saturation, Contrast, Sharpness and a few other settings into metadata. In order to compare apples to apples all RAW settings need to be reset completely so side-by-side test is exactly the same with no potential variations.

    That said, I'll do this test when I have a chance as it's important to me to know what the camera is doing at any point so I don't ruin my footage. Although its a raw camera the sensor is too noisy to ignore the importance of proper image capturing.
     
    #14 ge0se, Sep 30, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2016
  15. Mike Ronesia

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    If it does then that seems strange. Wiki says RAW's are uncompressed which we all know, but it doesn't say it is untreated which I guess is possible????? I know RAW photos are never affected by anything except exposure and ISO on my cameras.
     
  16. Joe Lawry

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    I only ever shoot None with my X5r. There is so much shadow info that can be pulled out ive never seen the benefit of bothering with cine d or d log, its raw after all.

    ..i only ever shoot None of my x5 as well tbh.. too compressed to bother grading it. Get it right in camera or shoot raw.
     
  17. ianwood

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    There's no way there is enough processing power onboard the X5R to manipulate RAW images in real time. RAW is exactly that. Untouched, directly from the sensor.