Looking into drones as a commercial venture

[rockryno]

Hi,

Just signed up to get some info and become part of this community.

I'm a licensed pilot in Northern California, and thought I'd explore the commercial side of drone ops as a side gig.

I've done a bunch of searches and research and it looks like I need to get a "remote pilot airman certificate". I believe that can be an add-on to my FAA license, which looks like its just filling out some forms on the FAA website and having a CFI sign-off. Am I missing anything there?

Job wise, how is the market now for independent operators? What types of jobs are you finding to be the most common and worthwhile?

Equipment - I've heard the Inspire is the one to get for anything professional. If cost weren't an issue, whats the aircraft/camera package to get? If cost were an issue, what's the runner up?

I appreciate the responses, and am looking forward to a fun venture!

PS anyone in the Sacramento area? Would love to meet up.

 

[AeroMirage]

Welcome aboard!!
Inspire 1 Pro with X5 camera is a proven workhorse.
If money not an issue, Inspire 2 with X5S, but still new and getting the bugs out.

Or, if Money really wasn't an issue.....

M600 + Red Camera

 

[licensed pilot]

Hi,

Just signed up to get some info and become part of this community.

I'm a licensed pilot in Northern California, and thought I'd explore the commercial side of drone ops as a side gig.

I've done a bunch of searches and research and it looks like I need to get a "remote pilot airman certificate". I believe that can be an add-on to my FAA license, which looks like its just filling out some forms on the FAA website and having a CFI sign-off. Am I missing anything there?

Job wise, how is the market now for independent operators? What types of jobs are you finding to be the most common and worthwhile?

Equipment - I've heard the Inspire is the one to get for anything professional. If cost weren't an issue, whats the aircraft/camera package to get? If cost were an issue, what's the runner up?

I appreciate the responses, and am looking forward to a fun venture!

PS anyone in the Sacramento area? Would love to meet up.

Becoming a Pilot

 

[rockryno]

Yes, I've been to that page - good info there, thanks.

I am leaning toward the Inspire 1.
Any advice towards used or new? I see them on BestBuy, but also a few local on Craigslist. Is a used one worth a few hundred off? What are the questions I should be asking for a used one? Software versions? Cameras? Flight hours?

 

[AeroMirage]

Flight hours? How many charges on battery? Ever crashed?

 

[rockryno]

any thoughts on the Matrice200?

 

[bluelight.support]

What are you going into - video or stills, survey, mapping, etc ?

 

[rockryno]

Honestly, I don't know. I'm open to anything. Is there a line where one drone would work best for one application where it wouldn't work for another? I'd like something proven,and has somewhat universal applications. I'd like to keep my options as much as possible, and wouldn't want the equipment to be the limiting factor.

 

[skyguy]

Best study up on airspace clearances before you get too far.

 

[Thatius Dudeson]

Best study up on airspace clearances before you get too far.

Lol.... right.

 

[William Gaddy]

Seems to me aerials for real-estate are a saturated market (race to the bottom in terms of billable, kids down the street with a 4th hand Phantom 2 billing $50 for a 2 hour shoot, uneducated Mayberry realtors who just fly their own drones without a Part 107 because they don't know better or don't care), cinematography is also saturated (the older players with 333 exemptions have a head-start, scale and there's not much an independent player can do to compete with a full-service shop that has drones, cameras, dolly equipment, technocranes, russian arms, etc). There seems to be a whole lot of interest in mapping and inspection, but in those cases you're most likely going to be a subcontractor unless you're chummy with the CEO of Synnex or Haliburton, so adjust your expectations accordingly. It seems everyone has a drone, but not everyone has the expertise or knows how to use advanced software to really take advantage of the imagery (4K, infrared, or 360 video) so that's probably your best differentiator, "should you choose to take on this mission".

 

[Thatius Dudeson]

Seems to me aerials for real-estate are a saturated market (race to the bottom in terms of billable, kids down the street with a 4th hand Phantom 2 billing $50 for a 2 hour shoot, uneducated Mayberry realtors who just fly their own drones without a Part 107 because they don't know better or don't care), cinematography is also saturated (the older players with 333 exemptions have a head-start, scale and there's not much an independent player can do to compete with a full-service shop that has drones, cameras, dolly equipment, technocranes, russian arms, etc). There seems to be a whole lot of interest in mapping and inspection, but in those cases you're most likely going to be a subcontractor unless you're chummy with the CEO of Synnex or Haliburton, so adjust your expectations accordingly. It seems everyone has a drone, but not everyone has the expertise or knows how to use advanced software to really take advantage of the imagery (4K, infrared, or 360 video) so that's probably your best differentiator, "should you choose to take on this mission".

The real money is in back end now... the service boom has been snagged up by the big guys like you said....

 

[William Gaddy]

The real money is in back end now... the service boom has been snagged up by the big guys like you said....

You are dead-on. I'm actually advising one such company, focused on the back end. It seems we pilots and our drones have become commodities already, unfortunately.

 

[William Gaddy]

Consider this from a "barrier to entry" standpoint. Any 13 year old kid can walk into a Best Buy with a few hundred bucks and walk out with a Phantom that has a fairly decent camera. Doing real-estate aerials? That's who you're competing with in that market -- a kid who otherwise if he was fairly enterprising would be delivering newspapers.

 

[rockryno]

That's disappointing to hear. Can you elaborate more on the back end market you mentioned? Just passed my 107 checkout and need to get signed off by my CFI, so I'm on the way. Haven't purchased anything yet, but do have lines on a few used Inspire 1s in the area.

I had initially thought real estate would be an easy entry point. What would set a qualified pilot apart from some 13-yr old down the block? It sounds like the FAA is obviously not concerned with commercial transactions with unqualified pilots.

If I need to look into a different aspect of the industry, now is the time to shift gears. You mentioned mapping and inspection - where would one find info on that industry? Different equipment necessary I'm assuming?

Thanks for the insight.

 

[Skydog]

I've been in the film/video production business for 30+ years. I use to shoot a lot of aerials from a Bell Jet Long Ranger with a Tyler nose mount - what a PITA - and very expensive.

And then there were drones. I subcontracted a drone service for a couple of years until I felt I could do it better - plus not have to wait on someone elses schedule.
Bought an Inspire 1 Pro with x5 and have not looked back. My company shoots mostly real estate and country club/golf course videos for their websites. I've run into the people that go the cheapy route and either buy a Phantom or hire someone's nephew - the work always comes back around when they realize that you can't get pro results from amateurs... or at least it is extremely rare.
Another significant issue with getting into the drone business is what you do with the footage after the shoot. A high end edit suite is almost mandatory to succeed in this business - and enough experience to fully utilize the system - most clients would have no idea what to do with a micro SD card with raw footage on it.
My company has an advantage in that we already have a significant client base and this just is one more important service that must be provided or they would hire someone else. Our website offers plenty of examples of what a client might expect. I've never sold a job where the client did not have a chance to preview my work. It would be a tough sell to convince someone to spend much money for unknown results. So I feel for those out there that invested a lot of cash and can't get much work - it's a tough business. But the issues are still the same as ever. Clients have to learn over and over again that it is the magician - not the wand !!
huntgroupproductions.com

 

[William Gaddy]

I've been in the film/video production business for 30+ years. I use to shoot a lot of aerials from a Bell Jet Long Ranger with a Tyler nose mount - what a PITA - and very expensive.

And then there were drones. I subcontracted a drone service for a couple of years until I felt I could do it better - plus not have to wait on someone elses schedule.
Bought an Inspire 1 Pro with x5 and have not looked back. My company shoots mostly real estate and country club/golf course videos for their websites. I've run into the people that go the cheapy route and either buy a Phantom or hire someone's nephew - the work always comes back around when they realize that you can't get pro results from amateurs... or at least it is extremely rare.
Another significant issue with getting into the drone business is what you do with the footage after the shoot. A high end edit suite is almost mandatory to succeed in this business - and enough experience to fully utilize the system - most clients would have no idea what to do with a micro SD card with raw footage on it.
My company has an advantage in that we already have a significant client base and this just is one more important service that must be provided or they would hire someone else. Our website offers plenty of examples of what a client might expect. I've never sold a job where the client did not have a chance to preview my work. It would be a tough sell to convince someone to spend much money for unknown results. So I feel for those out there that invested a lot of cash and can't get much work - it's a tough business. But the issues are still the same as ever. Clients have to learn over and over again that it is the magician - not the wand !!
huntgroupproductions.com

I think a lot of the variation is regional. In the Southwest, may be one thing -- where I'm at we have four (vicious) seasons. That should be in consideration too -- if you're in the NorthEast you're likely out of business 4-6 months out of the year unless you make some MAJOR investments.

 

[bluelight.support]

If I need to look into a different aspect of the industry, now is the time to shift gears. You mentioned mapping and inspection - where would one find info on that industry? Different equipment necessary I'm assuming?

Where do you draw the line - thats is the problem.

The drone is just the starting point for mapping - and the camera and lens you start with gives you a point in the industry at where you position yourself. Something line an Phantom 4 will give a starting point with 12mp, then moving to the 4 Pro which gives a RX100 style sensor in the style and mechanical shutter which is an excellent starting point.

We started with a Phantom 4, and then moved to Inspire 1 pro which was excellent, but as soon as the Inspire 2 came out with the M4/3 20mp sensor we had to upgrade to that. That for us (although it is currently broken due to user error with a blade upgrade) gives a beautiful image for mapping, and our results from the Phantom 4, to Inspire 1 to Inspire 2 look very very different. I think the X5s lens on the Matrice 200 will be the way to go but we'll see. We use the 12mm Olympus lens which in my opinion is the best in the market currently (on this platform). So we are now up to £5000-6000 so far. But that is just the start. In the US I understand you cant use the work survey in your business or title unless you are qualified so that might be a stumbling block for your industry for mapping.

Moving on to the real work - once you have captured the images you need to process them into something which is both usable, reliable and accurate and this is where the minefield starts. You need to place the images in space in lat, long and alt accurately, then process them in to the end products you require. Some people will buy a drone and then subscribe to these monthly cloud services which offer an easy to use product, albeit not very tweekable or customazible. You get what you get. And a lot of clients will not want their images stored in the cloud.

So you are now looking at software to run the processing / back office in house. So budget a good £3000-5000 for workstation (we use Mac Pro and Dell Workstations), then add the software, such as Agisoft, Pix4d, Corralator3d or the like -at around £3500-5000 per year (Agisoft Pro is $3000 to buy currently) and then if you are doing reports or other work you need to factor in a GIS package. We use ESRI which currently runs area round £10000-120000 per year for a full pro subscription.

As all this stands, this will give you about 100cm - 150cm accuracy in the x,y and 150-300cm in the z which will be fine for google earth style overlays buy nothing else. So you will now need to look at adding ground control points and check points to marry up your images to known points in space and time to get accuracies of 5-15mm which is what would be required. Add in the cost of equipment to do this £15000 plus in the UK you would need either RTK or post processing at around £1500 per year. I know again in the US you can get free RTK streams.

If you don't know what a GeoID or WSG84 is (without googling!) then factor in a 2-3 year masters degree in earth science to understand what is actually required for mapping (this is what I'm currently doing at 45!).

Once you have all this, then you can get involved with mapping. So as you can see, the drone is the easy bit in all this, its the technology, and industry knowledge behind this to create the map. as has been said before its the workman not the tool.

 

[Skydog]

I think a lot of the variation is regional. In the Southwest, may be one thing -- where I'm at we have four (vicious) seasons. That should be in consideration too -- if you're in the NorthEast you're likely out of business 4-6 months out of the year unless you make some MAJOR investments.

Yes absolutely! Where you operate from is a huge factor. We travel all over the country so summer months are our busiest time - but we do some work in South Fla. in the winter. However the bulk of my business is video production in general - so weather is not always the critical factor it is with drone flying.

 

[Thatius Dudeson]

Where do you draw the line - thats is the problem.

The drone is just the starting point for mapping - and the camera and lens you start with gives you a point in the industry at where you position yourself. Something line an Phantom 4 will give a starting point with 12mp, then moving to the 4 Pro which gives a RX100 style sensor in the style and mechanical shutter which is an excellent starting point.

We started with a Phantom 4, and then moved to Inspire 1 pro which was excellent, but as soon as the Inspire 2 came out with the M4/3 20mp sensor we had to upgrade to that. That for us (although it is currently broken due to user error with a blade upgrade) gives a beautiful image for mapping, and our results from the Phantom 4, to Inspire 1 to Inspire 2 look very very different. I think the X5s lens on the Matrice 200 will be the way to go but we'll see. We use the 12mm Olympus lens which in my opinion is the best in the market currently (on this platform). So we are now up to £5000-6000 so far. But that is just the start. In the US I understand you cant use the work survey in your business or title unless you are qualified so that might be a stumbling block for your industry for mapping.

Moving on to the real work - once you have captured the images you need to process them into something which is both usable, reliable and accurate and this is where the minefield starts. You need to place the images in space in lat, long and alt accurately, then process them in to the end products you require. Some people will buy a drone and then subscribe to these monthly cloud services which offer an easy to use product, albeit not very tweekable or customazible. You get what you get. And a lot of clients will not want their images stored in the cloud.

So you are now looking at software to run the processing / back office in house. So budget a good £3000-5000 for workstation (we use Mac Pro and Dell Workstations), then add the software, such as Agisoft, Pix4d, Corralator3d or the like -at around £3500-5000 per year (Agisoft Pro is $3000 to buy currently) and then if you are doing reports or other work you need to factor in a GIS package. We use ESRI which currently runs area round £10000-120000 per year for a full pro subscription.

As all this stands, this will give you about 100cm - 150cm accuracy in the x,y and 150-300cm in the z which will be fine for google earth style overlays buy nothing else. So you will now need to look at adding ground control points and check points to marry up your images to known points in space and time to get accuracies of 5-15mm which is what would be required. Add in the cost of equipment to do this £15000 plus in the UK you would need either RTK or post processing at around £1500 per year. I know again in the US you can get free RTK streams.

If you don't know what a GeoID or WSG84 is (without googling!) then factor in a 2-3 year masters degree in earth science to understand what is actually required for mapping (this is what I'm currently doing at 45!).

Once you have all this, then you can get involved with mapping. So as you can see, the drone is the easy bit in all this, its the technology, and industry knowledge behind this to create the map. as has been said before its the workman not the tool.

Nailed it