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X5 only 60mbps is this a big issue?

Discussion in 'Zenmuse X5' started by tdwragg, Sep 12, 2015.

  1. tdwragg

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    Compared to most 4K cameras it's a low bit rate, apparently due to micro SD limitations, but surely it's a big enough camera that it could of had a full size SD.
    Either way should we care? and is there a show real of just X5 footage as i'm guessing we are all looking at and being amazed by the X5R?
     
  2. damoncooper

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    X5 video write speed = 60Mbps, same as the current X3. Some folks have speculated that's due to current SD card limits. They're mixing bits and bytes. 60Mbps = only 7.5 MB/s. Current SD cards can sustain up to 90MB/s write speed.

    I'm personally very disappointed the X5 is limited to 60Mbps for video, with the MFT sensor capturing so much more data. The X5R is 1.7Gbps RAW or 1,740Mbps or 212MB/s. That is nearly 30X the write speed/detail.

    That surely deserves a premium, but the lack of a delta between X5 and X3 speed is a real disappointment in my opinion, as is the massive 30X delta between X5 and X5R.

    In my humble opinion, giving the X5 a 100-150Mbps bitrate would have made more sense and enabled better use of the massive MFT sensor for the mid-range buyer.

    My 2c.

    ImageUploadedByTapatalk1442081392.222379.jpg
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  3. InterMurph

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    I see this as the main weakness of the X5. Hopefully the encoder on the camera is capable of higher bit rates, which can be unlocked in a firmware upgrade.

    According to this review, the Sandisk Extreme PLUS, which is rated lower rated than the Extreme PRO linked to above, can sustain writing at 60 megabytes/second, which is 480 megabits/second. And there are several cards which score higher.

    So maybe it's not the MicroSD standard. Hopefully, DJI is at least using a UHS-3 card slot, which would allow these extremely high speeds.
     
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  4. damoncooper

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    My hope is DJI will hear the customer feedback on this issue and adjust the X5 specs accordingly via FW update.

    It would really demonstrate customer centricity to listen to their customer feedback and adjust things accordingly. That would be a good omen of their ability to grow to 10X+ their current size where customer service issues will likely restrict their growth.
     
  5. tdwragg

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    if they can increase this with firmware why would they have it at 60Mbps in the first place? i guess what may be more important is how it compresses the files to be that size? after all it's most likely that we would compress it further to share it with customers etc
     
  6. The Editor

    The Editor Moderator
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    I totally agree with your comments.
    Other than for still imagery I see no advantage in the X5 over the existing X3. Same bitrate, same codec, same GOP structure = same problems. And to market 4K at 60mbps is laughable (as it was with the X3).
    However, it MAY be a very conscious desicision for DJI to peg the bitrate at 60mbps on the X5 as they want the visual difference between the two cameras to be very noticeable (to justify the price points).
    If they were to give people the X5 at 150mbps would they sell so many X5R's???????
    For Mr Average" the quality between the two would not be noticeable if the X5 gave bitrates north of 100mbps.
     
  7. damoncooper

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    It's a conscious decision to create a mid-tier camera while leaving room for high end X5R.

    There should be no technical reason why it's limited to 60Mbps / 7.5MB/s.

    But I think they simply over-protected the X5R by limiting the X5 to 60Mbps. There is enough of a delta with 1,750Mbps in the X5R that they could safely bump the X5 to 150Mbps and still not dent the X5R market in my opinion, and create a new delta between the X3 and X5 to create demand from current Inspire 1 customers using the X3.
     
    #7 damoncooper, Sep 12, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2015
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  8. Kilrah

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    AFAIK all of the current off-the-shelf imaging solutions are actually limited to 60Mbps.

    Yes Panasonic and Sony can do more - but they're using their own custom in-house solutions that I'm pretty sure either didn't fit the X5 design requirements or they simply didn't want to supply to DJI. Gotta keep exclusivity for a while. Sony cams only went from 60 to 100Mbps 6 months ago, and that's only on a couple of select, high end and pretty bulky models.
     
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  9. damoncooper

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    Not sure where you got that but the GH4 bitrates, for example are 100Mbps and 200Mbps.
     
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  10. Kilrah

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    Did you read my post?
     
  11. damoncooper

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    "X5 design requirements" what does that even mean?

    You can put a GH4 on a gimbal and fly it. That's the design requirement that matters.
     
    #11 damoncooper, Sep 12, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2015
  12. Method007

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    You're dead right. Their entire business model is hinged on the fact that they produce products that are first to market. If you say "Damn the X5 is way to expensive", DJI can say "Yes but can you do the same for cheaper?", and the answer is generally no. This is why we bought the Inspire in the first place - you can't do the same for less money. They need to realize that RAW capture of 4K video alone is the X5R's selling point. I would buy the X5 right now if it did 100mbps. I will never buy the X5R. Unfortunately, I'm buying neither.
     
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  13. gruvpix

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    Yes and no... Bitrate is important, but not everything. I will wait to see footage straight from the camera before buying either, but I certainly will be buying one of the X5 or X5R.
    I've said it before and I'll say it again, the bitrate on canon c100 is max 35 Mbps. I don't think any of us would be complaining if we could get c100 quality of image on a drone.
    Apples and oranges, to an extent, but sensor size trumps all in my experience.
     
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  14. skylabimaging

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    Data rates are dependant on how they are used in the codec but I agree with The Editor, video wise I wasn't really wow'd with the footage difference, for the price anyway....the x5r looks cool but for the money I'd rather invest in a bmd mini 4k or something.

    I used to use Sanity X fw on my gh2 (I actually do still use, bounce between flowmotion and sanity). It wasn't the highest bitrate fw available but that didn't matter it was a strong contender and utilizes bit rates based on the complexity of the scene your shooting. So is 60mbps a big deal? We'll have to wait and see what the footage is like. I for one decided not to buy either. Instead I preordered the a7sii and will be flying that with lightbridge 2 on a octo with movi m5

    Thinking about the black magic micro....camera companies should start incorporating sbus into them so gimbal users and aerial photographers can make use of camera adjustments while airborne
     
  15. damoncooper

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    I've provided this exact feedback to Eric Cheng @ DJI and he acknowledged it and was thankful for the feedback.

    He did suggest we should probably reserve judgement until we see the actual results of the production X5 units, as we've been here before with the X3 "shaky gimbal" issue prior to I1 launch etc.

    I think that's fair to ask.

    Hopefully the feedback will be heard and possibly result in a FW update to bitrate. I think the X5 / R can be real game changers.
     
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  16. Kilrah

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    But that will be too big to put under an I1, so it obviously doesn't fit the design requirements for a replacement camera for the I1, which the X5 is.... jeez.
     
    #16 Kilrah, Sep 13, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2015
  17. apsussex

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    I would have thought, even if the x5 shot at 100mpbs, the fact the x5r shoots raw video would still be enough of a difference to choose for some. Really baffled by their choice of 60Mbps. its not even a heat issue either.
     
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  18. The Editor

    The Editor Moderator
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    All very true but.....the C100 doesn't pretend to be a 4k camera (which of course it isn't) and the frame rate tops out at 30fps/60i. If we start shooting interlaced we are going to lose 30% horizontal resolution due to the Kell factor and nobody wants that with aerial footage :).
    Like you, I want to see untouched files straight out of the X5 where I can examine them properly locked away in my man cave before I make any sort of credit card type decision. :p
     
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  19. Kilrah

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    Blade strike said last night on RCG that he'd provide some unedited files when he gets his X5 next week :)
     
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  20. cycoptic

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    Here's some i found on RCGroups.

    Dropbox - X5_RAW

    If the link doesn't work it's on this page.

    http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2280074&page=2823