CineSSD strategy

[Skyward Imaging]

"Standard" meaning off-the-shelf SSDs (whatever the correct form factor is) as opposed to DJI's proprietary version.

If they stick with what they did with the X5R SSDs, they'll be Samsung drives with hardware encryption turned on. Good luck with that.

Like I said, there's probably a reason no one ever produced a third-party alternative to the X5R SSD.

Probably because the drives cost so much from DJI ripping people off they don't want to spend the money to try and crack the encryption key. Nonetheless the drive is whats encrypted not the bird or the camera. So technically if someone was to figure out the plug end and design an adapter you should be able to use any M.2 80mm SSD Drive. The drive itself is a SED (Self Encrypting Drive) meaning the data going onto the drive starts off as unencrypted data. Once it is saved to the SSD the drive hardware encrypts it. Then when it is removed from the drive using the reader (the key is in there by the way so someone with enough knowledge could get it) it is Un-Encrypted for use. There really is only 2 things stopping someone from making an aftermarket solution to this issue. 1. The price of the drives to gain access to the hardware configuration. and 2. The adapter that would be needed to access the drive itself. Not the encryption itself.

 

[jb.]

Probably because the drives cost so much from DJI ripping people off they don't want to spend the money to try and crack the encryption key. Nonetheless the drive is whats encrypted not the bird or the camera. So technically if someone was to figure out the plug end and design an adapter you should be able to use any M.2 80mm SSD Drive. The drive itself is a SED (Self Encrypting Drive) meaning the data going onto the drive starts off as unencrypted data. Once it is saved to the SSD the drive hardware encrypts it. Then when it is removed from the drive using the reader (the key is in there by the way so someone with enough knowledge could get it) it is Un-Encrypted for use. There really is only 2 things stopping someone from making an aftermarket solution to this issue. 1. The price of the drives to gain access to the hardware configuration. and 2. The adapter that would be needed to access the drive itself. Not the encryption itself.

I'm not sure the data itself is actually encrypted. It could be just the checksum portion is. Depends on how they implemented it. Hell, with the scale DJI does, they could be buying custom-firmware drives from Samsung (or some other OEM).

Regardless, if it was too expensive for someone to do it with the X5R cards, why do you think it's suddenly going to be different this time?

All I'm saying is when the X5R and its horribly overpriced SSD cards came out, people said the EXACT. SAME. THING.

"Someone'll crack it and we can use off the shelf SSDs in 3D printed shells and save major bucks!"

It never happened.

 

[Hellohogo]

This would be great. Anybody heard any updates on cinessd's shipping?

 

[Mark Taylor]

DJI are not trying to hide any aspect of the SSD, here's a complete disassembly by Ken, one of their own staff:

RC Groups - View Single Post - Official Inspire 2 ***Owner's Thread***

Appears to be a PCI-E Samsung SM961 M.2 with encryption turned on as expected.

 

[visionrouge]

Please visit my last test and discovery here
what’s inside a Cine SSD DJI, Can you use a simple SSD instead? | Vision Rouge

I will update after new tests

 

[2nd2non]

Please visit my last test and discovery here
what’s inside a Cine SSD DJI, Can you use a simple SSD instead? | Vision Rouge

I will update after new tests

So can I buy a small size CineSSD and install a larger Samsung SSD inside the casing?

 

[NickU]

Probably not 2nd2non - I think someone took one apart and tried it on the dpi forums and didn't seem to get anywhere with it - seems there might be some encryption being used on the dpi logic board in the sad.

 

[rocstudios]

Finally got 4 of my CINESSD's yesterday and guess what DJI forgot to ship....the reader! yay!!! - Now I wonder how long will I have to wait for them to ship it out to me. Is there a way I can extract the data while I wait for my reader?

 

[visionrouge]

So can I buy a small size CineSSD and install a larger Samsung SSD inside the casing?

It look like not, of course.

I will let you know soon some other test.
Buy one SSD but many similar drive and switch them (buying the exact same models of course)
It took me a while to find the exact SSD, but I should have it delivered by next week.
Keep you posted.

 

[TheGrumpster]

We should start a go-fund-me for the first person to successfully hack an off-the-shelf SSD to work with the I2. Would definitely be worth it. And as an engineer who has done business in China, believe me, there are no secrets there. Someone HAS to know how to do this. The only question is how much will we have to pay them to get the info we need.

 

[dkotinsky]

barring having tons of money and just buying a stack of 480gb drives, what are you guys buying initially: a few of the smaller drives, or a lesser amount of the 480gb?

Things to consider:
Smaller drives are less of a risk with data, and cheaper. Large drive takes 2 hours to offload when full.
Large drives obviously store more and wont have to change as often depending on codec.

I'm planning on only recording in prores initially.

They certainly dont take 2 hours to offload, I have a 480gb, maybe 20 minutes

 

[visionrouge]

We should start a go-fund-me for the first person to successfully hack an off-the-shelf SSD to work with the I2. Would definitely be worth it. And as an engineer who has done business in China, believe me, there are no secrets there. Someone HAS to know how to do this. The only question is how much will we have to pay them to get the info we need.

You can already donate few money following the link I gave sooner. Froma coffee to a car to support my research.

My idea is not to hack something from DJI and reverse engineering their product but more to use their SSD case and dedicated connection and chip as it is, just swapping the drive in both side, on the air during recording and at the office with the station. I can use a port extension to get the CineSSD inside the bird when we swap the SSD in a second enclosure outside, with a flat extension cable. Using the exact SSD model, of course.

 

[rocstudios]

Reader? Only DJI?

 

[visionrouge]

You can already donate few money following the link I gave sooner. From a coffee to a car to support my research.

This is working, you can extend the existing SSD connector to do more serious test
working on both side, read and write

 

[pepeticos]

This is working, you can extend the existing SSD connectorView attachment 13452 View attachment 13453 to do more serious test
working on both side, read and write

So Visionrouge did you find the way of making this to work?

 

[DrMrdalj]

They certainly dont take 2 hours to offload, I have a 480gb, maybe 20 minutes

I fully agree.
One should note that offload time depends on offload read speed as well as write speed of target disk If offloading to onother SSD, let's assume that write speed is at least 300MB/s, then 300GB would take 1000 seconds (aprox. 17 minutes), while full 480GB drive would offload in 1600 seconds (aprox. 26 minutes).
So, for fast offload you would need at least one offload SSD per every CinemaSSD you fill. Having in mind regular DIT procedures (several indetical copies, etc) you would need to buy plenty of SSDs while still waiting several hours per each filled CinemaSSD for multiple copies to offload and checksum test.

Therefore it seems to me that using 240GB CinemaSSDs and shooting in ProRes 422HQ or 4444XQ give you most efficient workflow.

Still, having in mind that you can offload to external SSD at least as fast as you can fill DJI CinemaSSD (or even faster, having in mind time to prepare your flight...) it seems to me that all you need is three to four CinemaSSDs for majority of shooting situations, an then as much of offload SSDs as you are expected to produce during the project.

 

[n5101]

Not sure what the "coffee drive" is for. No magic here.
CineSSD utilizes Samsung SSD encryption technology, nothing proprietary from DJI except the connector to the craft.
It is possible to break that encryption on the government level It is the same as the encrypted hard drive in modern computer but the key owner is DJI.

Technical detail for those who still say and want to try to get cheap SSD to work as CineSSD, it can not be one for all solution.
One drive at the time using SATA sniffer to capture the encryption code and program your own SSD to that (capacity still might be limited to that of the original "sniffed" SSD).
Cost of hardware compatible to the cost of Inspire 2 itself.

 

[rmb]

I am shooting with 2 240s and love it. I simpley shoot for a while and then swap cards and dump off the 1st SSD on my laptop. (15 minutes to 1/2 hour tops) I saved cash by by 2 240s instead of 2 480s and when I get some extra $ I will buy 2 more 240 SSDs. I very much like having more smaller cards. As I tell my clients, flying on the same card all can be a bit risky. "Remember, everytime I dump a card that means even if the bird goes down you still have your footage". Also I never liked have all the eggs in 1 basket cards can have read/write errors and or simply die. The only way I would concider the 480 is if I were planning on doing a lot of non-stop DNG shooting.

My 2 cents

 

[Paul Nordin]

Based on years of shooting raw on a Red cameras, my read is that 9 out of 10 clients will strongly prefer ProRes 4444 or HQ over CinemaDNG. Having enough media to shoot a typical gig's worth of the former, and a little of the latter is my strategy. Ideally, someone in my area (SF Bay Area) will rent extra 480GB cards to me when I get the odd shoot that is doing a lot of CinemaDNG.

 

[rmb]

Right on. Actually I am doing 4444XQ Dlog vs. DNG tests today cuase I have not been seeing epic differences in Dynamic Range.