Correct procedure

[kcobello]

hey guys/gals

I have not seen if there is preflight a correct procedure to attach props and battery. Should you prop it first and then install the battery? Or the reverse. This may sound like a funny question but we are told FSDO inspections will be around our area and I am trying to get ALL my ducks in a row. We had a routine we used for Pre/post but I think we are moving in a better direction. Thanks

 

[SanCap]

I don't think it really matters one way or the other. What kind of FSDO inspections are being conducted in your area? Are they looking for drones flying in the air? Are they looking at NOTAMS filed?

 

[kcobello]

I don't think it really matters one way or the other. What kind of FSDO inspections are being conducted in your area? Are they looking for drones flying in the air? Are they looking at NOTAMS filed?

Actually our local mentioned doing inspections of new 107 first flights. He requested to be out to our first flight to inspect our operation. We have a job coming up at the end of this month we will be calling for this inspection.
As far as the prop/battery question I guess I was looking at a safety issue for doing it one way or another. Understand we will have the inspector onsite. Is it safer one way or another if there ever was a way for that rig to be energized with the props on. Just trying to cover as much as possible. Airspace, weather, maintenance, pre/in-flight/post we have covered so some details I want to iron out.
Thanks SanCap
Kevin

 

[The Editor]

hey guys/gals

I have not seen if there is preflight a correct procedure to attach props and battery. Should you prop it first and then install the battery? Or the reverse. This may sound like a funny question but we are told FSDO inspections will be around our area and I am trying to get ALL my ducks in a row. We had a routine we used for Pre/post but I think we are moving in a better direction. Thanks

It really doesn't matter but presumably you/your company has an operations manual and it should be itemised in there as part of your pre-flight checklist procedures.
As long as you follow your own procedures you are operating within your agreed parameters.
The only 'safety' advantage of attaching the props first (which is what I do) is that the aircraft cannot possibly get powered up (and thus have rotating props) with no battery installed.

 

[SanCap]

Actually our local mentioned doing inspections of new 107 first flights. He requested to be out to our first flight to inspect our operation. We have a job coming up at the end of this month we will be calling for this inspection.
As far as the prop/battery question I guess I was looking at a safety issue for doing it one way or another. Understand we will have the inspector onsite. Is it safer one way or another if there ever was a way for that rig to be energized with the props on. Just trying to cover as much as possible. Airspace, weather, maintenance, pre/in-flight/post we have covered so some details I want to iron out.
Thanks SanCap
Kevin

You should schedule your first 107 flight about 6:30 in the evening assuming if it is not close to sunset or at the local hazmat landfill I am sure he/her will not want to work overtime or go to the landfill. I have worked closely with the FAA throughout my aviation career. Offer nothing and only answer questions asked.

 

[BigAl07]

You should schedule your first 107 flight about 6:30 in the evening assuming if it is not close to sunset or at the local hazmat landfill I am sure he/her will not want to work overtime or go to the landfill. I have worked closely with the FAA throughout my aviation career. Offer nothing and only answer questions asked.

Wise words my friend. Very wise indeed.

 

[licensed pilot]

You should schedule your first 107 flight about 6:30 in the evening assuming if it is not close to sunset or at the local hazmat landfill I am sure he/her will not want to work overtime or go to the landfill. I have worked closely with the FAA throughout my aviation career. Offer nothing and only answer questions asked.

hey guys/gals

I have not seen if there is preflight a correct procedure to attach props and battery. Should you prop it first and then install the battery? Or the reverse. This may sound like a funny question but we are told FSDO inspections will be around our area and I am trying to get ALL my ducks in a row. We had a routine we used for Pre/post but I think we are moving in a better direction. Thanks

Could you expand on the "FSDO inspections will be around our area"? Did they call you specifically? I think most commercial operators assumed there would be some sort of inspections eventually but we are naturally curious...

 

[BigAl07]

Could you expand on the "FSDO inspections will be around our area"? Did they call you specifically? I think most commercial operators assumed there would be some sort of inspections eventually but we are naturally curious...

It would be nice to know in advance of a Ramp Check wouldn't it?

 

[Florida Drone Supply]

It really doesn't matter but presumably you/your company has an operations manual and it should be itemised in there as part of your pre-flight checklist procedures.
As long as you follow your own procedures you are operating within your agreed parameters.
The only 'safety' advantage of attaching the props first (which is what I do) is that the aircraft cannot possibly get powered up (and thus have rotating props) with no battery installed.

Yeah, I agree on this as well. Handling the props with an unpowered aircraft makes more sense to me. Obviously something could go astray when you power the aircraft with the props on, but I think the odds of either scenario are low so you could follow your manual - however you have it written. Plus, if you have any other aircraft that does not have quick removable props your procedure would not need to change (install / check props before powering aircraft)

 

[Steve@AerialImagesPro]

Could you expand on the "FSDO inspections will be around our area"? Did they call you specifically? I think most commercial operators assumed there would be some sort of inspections eventually but we are naturally curious...

I'd like to know too. The current 'rule' is that you must allow for an inspection 'upon request'. So I don't think they can just randomly come up and ask to inspect your drone can they? Unless they consider that 'request' showing up on the spot and requesting to inspect your drone.

Not a big deal if you're following the pretty loose rules like as long as you have your own made up procedures and are following them, all is good. But it could interrupt a shoot or something.

 

[BigAl07]

I'd like to know too. The current 'rule' is that you must allow for an inspection 'upon request'. So I don't think they can just randomly come up and ask to inspect your drone can they? Unless they consider that 'request' showing up on the spot and requesting to inspect your drone.

Not a big deal if you're following the pretty loose rules like as long as you have your own made up procedures and are following them, all is good. But it could interrupt a shoot or something.

They can and DO inspect unannounced. They "request" when they walk up to you. We've gone through this for years in GA and it's called a Ramp Check. Just a quick look over paperwork, a few questions, and you're good to go.

 

[SanCap]

They can and DO inspect unannounced. They "request" when they walk up to you. We've gone through this for years in GA and it's called a Ramp Check. Just a quick look over paperwork, a few questions, and you're good to go.

How would the FAA know where you are doing a 107 flight?

 

[licensed pilot]

Right; it isn't just the UAV, I'm sure they will be asking for maintenance logs and pilot logs, along with ops manual. Back in my 333 days (sounds like a long time ago) I purchased a regular airplane maintenance logbook and divided it in 3 sections, each one for a different UAV in anticipation of FAA inspections some day.

They can and DO inspect unannounced. They "request" when they walk up to you. We've gone through this for years in GA and it's called a Ramp Check. Just a quick look over paperwork, a few questions, and you're good to go.

Right, but with manned aircraft your logbook is in your pilot bag and the aircraft logbook is in the FOB's shack if it's a rental, I never owned a plane but I 'm guessing I would keep the maint logbook in a safe place (home) or A&P office?. So... when it comes to UAS, FAA dude "just showing up, it's not going to work" your logbooks are home, safe.

 

[SanCap]

Right; it isn't just the UAV, I'm sure they will be asking for maintenance logs and pilot logs, along with ops manual. Back in my 333 days (sounds like a long time ago) I purchased a regular airplane maintenance logbook and divided it in 3 sections, each one for a different UAV in anticipation of FAA inspections some day.


Right, but with manned aircraft your logbook is in your pilot bag and the aircraft logbook is in the FOB's shack if it's a rental, I never owned a plane but I 'm guessing I would keep the maint logbook in a safe place (home) or A&P office?. So... when it comes to UAS, FAA dude "just showing up, it's not going to work" your logbooks are home, safe.

Can you point me to the maintenance log and pilot log requirement in Part 107?

 

[licensed pilot]

Lets us not start a pissing contest. I follow this as a best practice from my 333 days. Nothing in 107 says you must, nor does it say you can't.
Which begs the question, if they are not required...what the hell is the FAA dude going to "inspect"?

 

[SanCap]

Lets us not start a pissing contest. I follow this as a best practice from my 333 days. Nothing in 107 says you must, nor does it say you can't.
Which begs the question, if they are not required...what the hell is the FAA dude going to "inspect"?

I was not starting a pissing contest, I was hoping that I didn't miss something requiring me to keep those records. I go as far as keeping my logs updated with Airdata.

 

[kcobello]

Hey guys sorry for the late response. Some one made a false claim we were selling photos off our SmugMug site. I was called on this by the FSDO. He didn't know I was 333 but unfortunately he found a few non compliance video from a few years back. We are doing our best to conform. So a letter is coming. He did request a first flight inspection of our op. We use insurance property owner permissions, signage and much more on our flights which he did notice. He seems fair and if that's what he wants fine. He also mentioned they have a right to all flight logs on our operation. Fine no problem. We will obey the best we can. We are hoping for a bright future with our direction and yes you do need flight logs under a 107.

 

[licensed pilot]

Hey guys sorry for the late response. Some one made a false claim we were selling photos off our SmugMug site. I was called on this by the FSDO. He didn't know I was 333 but unfortunately he found a few non compliance video from a few years back. We are doing our best to conform. So a letter is coming. He did request a first flight inspection of our op. We use insurance property owner permissions, signage and much more on our flights which he did notice. He seems fair and if that's what he wants fine. He also mentioned they have a right to all flight logs on our operation. Fine no problem. We will obey the best we can. We are hoping for a bright future with our direction and yes you do need flight logs under a 107.

Can you define "flight logs'?

 

[BigAl07]

Hey guys sorry for the late response. Some one made a false claim we were selling photos off our SmugMug site. I was called on this by the FSDO. can.

We had the exact same thing happen here. Someone "anonymously reported" us as being an illegal operation but ours was just a phone call. He knew my name, company name and of course phone #. He stated why he was calling and when I gave him my Section 333 file #, my RPIC Cert # and my Pilot's License it more than satisfied their requirements for Commercial Ops. The inspector stated, "Sorry to have bothered you but when someone lodges a complaint we have to follow up."

We didn't have any further input from the FSDO and that was last October I believe.

Good luck, be polite and cordial but do not get too free and friendly with your words.

 

[Steve@AerialImagesPro]

Not sure if this helps or muddies thing even more, but I just wen through 400+ pages of the part 107 rule. The only references to flight logs are in the Docket Comments section (see below copied right from the part 107 rule the last paragraph I think addresses the issue, but if someone disables that logging, then it would seem there's no problem:

Several individuals said small UAS should be equipped with flight data recording systems or “black boxes” so that operators can be held accountable for infractions. One individual said that, for those aircraft that can record flight log data, there should be a requirement to preserve that data in the event of an operation that causes injury or property damage. The commenter further suggested that, in case of airspace violations, the FAA consider requiring all such flight logs be kept for some predetermined period of time.
Due to the mitigations provided by part 107 that reduce the likelihood of a small UAS flight resulting in significant injury or property damage, a requirement to equip small unmanned aircraft with flight data recorders would be unnecessarily burdensome.

The Washington State Department of Transportation, Aviation Division said documentation of maintenance should be required for small UAS operated over large assemblies of people, such as professional sporting events, large concerts, and “similar environments where a safe landing area is likely unavailable.” NetMoby suggested that operators should be required to log the results of each preflight inspection for inspection by the FAA if needed.
Under Executive Order 12866, the FAA may “adopt a regulation only upon a reasoned determination that the benefits of the intended regulation justify its costs.” Imposing maintenance or preflight-check recordkeeping requirements, such as the ones suggested by the commenters, would likely result in a significant cost because the remote pilot in command would have to create new paperwork every time that he or she conducts a preflight check, or every time that any type of maintenance is conducted on the small UAS. At this time, the FAA does not have data to determine whether the safety benefits of additional documentation would be sufficient to justify this burden, especially in light of the significant safety mitigations already provided by the other provisions of part 107.

One individual suggested that a remote pilot in command must enable and make available to the FAA any flight log recording if the aircraft and/or control station is capable of creating such a recording. In response, the FAA notes that this rule does not require that a small UAS operation have the capability to create a flight log recording. However, if a small UAS does create such a recording, § 107.7(b) will allow the FAA to inspect the small