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Flicker, aliasing, jittering issues with Inspire footage?

Discussion in 'Inspire 1 Discussion' started by Figbar, Jan 20, 2015.

  1. Figbar

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    I've been having some issues with video footage of fine detailed objects...for example trees without leaves, fine branches. Also vertical and horizontal lines on buildings. All of these seem to be jittering or aliasing when there is camera movement.

    I've shot this footage at 4k - 30fps - auto iris - .mov format. I have shot the same scenes trying each of the Anti Flicker settings - auto, 60hz and 50hz, without any good results.

    I am editing using Avid Media composer, importing footage at hi resolution. This footage really jumps out when displayed on my large screen monitor. I've shot the same scenes using GoPro Hero 4 and have not had these issues.

    Does anyone have any suggestions? I would like to shoot in 30fps because I need to match other 30fps sources in videos I'm producing.

    I do have access to Adobe Premier...but have been editing with Avid for many years.

    Thanks
     
  2. Eduardo Bilbao

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    Are the horizontal lines black and white?
     
    Alastair likes this.
  3. Figbar

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    No...they are in color...brick buildings, windows on buildings...they are fine lines...I'm also seeing this in fine curved lines, like bare tree branches.
     
  4. jonathnsmith

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    Can you show some of the footage? Maybe zoomed in to the problem areas?
     
  5. Figbar

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    Yes, I will post something first thing tomorrow morning...I should have posted footage with my question.
     
  6. Ultra310x

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    From my experience there are only somem editors that can process the data correctly others look like crap in different ways look at the raw footage in a media player or quicktime if its still there then its the camera or settings. if its not its your software
     
  7. shockwave199

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    I see this all the time playing back you tube vids. I think more people should be sticking to 1080p if they don't have the means to deal with higher resolution footage in post, or their software isn't doing well handling 4k footage.
     
  8. The Editor

    The Editor Moderator
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    OK... a few things here:

    1. The 50/60Hz anti flicker will have no effect on this as this 'feature' is there to alleviate the flicker caused between mains frequencies when viewing footage that has electric lighting in frame recorded outside of your native frame rate. ie. recording something in the USA under lights when you have camera settings set to 25 or 50fps - this can cause banding/flicker on the footage. In these circumstances use the anti flicker option.
    2. What are you viewing the footage on that is displaying the problem?
    3. What are your project settings in Avid? - Are you putting your UHD4k footage onto a 1080 timeline or are you editing within a 4k project?
    4. What are your settings for exporting the footage from Avid? (Resolution, Aspect, Frame Rate, Codec, Sampling rate, CBR or VBR etc?)
    5. Have you set field order differently to the original (Upper field or lower field first or are you maintaining progressive through the workflow?)
    6. Have you applied any sharpening either in camera or filters on the timeline or is the sharpness wound up on the monitor you are seeing the problem on? If the level, frequency or H/V detail is set too narrow then you will approach the threshold of resolution of the footage itself. This will cause line jitter or 'sparkling' of horizontals or verticals.
    7. Any resizing using Lanczos?
     
    #8 The Editor, Jan 21, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2015
  9. Figbar

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    Thanks for all the feedback. For the editor...very helpful to know what this anti-flicker is for. In Avid, there is no longer a choice to determine field order when importing...there used be a prompt that would ask upper or lower field first. I imported this footage to fit a 1080p project at 29.97.

    The issue I have is monitoring the source footage...seeing this aliasing on a Panasonic consumer monitor. I'm not talking about outputted files.

    HOWEVER...I posted a native raw clip from the Inspire to YouTube...and I'm watching the footage at the highest resolution on my computer monitor...and it looks great.

    So I'm pretty sure the issue is with my edit system/monitor...I just need to figure out what's going on in my edit suite.

    Here is the link to the original clip from the Inspire...shot in the Log mode...raw.



    Thanks for the input from everyone.
     
  10. Cyclops

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    Hey Figbar,

    That's some of the clearest Inspire 1 footage I've seen. Would you be able to let me know what other settings you selected. You mention Log mode and raw ( which I thought was only applicable for photos ). There is no Jello and I was wondering if you had also used the ND filter?

    Great example what the Inspire 1 can achieve in the right hands.
     
  11. Figbar

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    I am very encouraged to hear that about the footage. I just ran out behind our studio and shot this...just to get something to evaluate...no real thought to the shot, etc.

    In terms of Log mode...in the video settings, on the color template, there are several choices...I was under the impression that these applied to video shooting as well. Another forum poster (forget his name) who did some spectacular shooting of a West coast lighthouse, surfing, said he shot his stuff in the Log mode. He did his at 4k at 24p, which looked great, but I need to stay at 30fps.

    I did have the ND filter on...relatively sunny day here in Ohio (rare) in January.

    I shot at 4k at 30fps...I was using auto iris, white balance for sun.

    This is a raw clip...I would do some color correction/contrast manipulation in edit.

    I am so freaked out about what an incredible package this Inspire is. The main thing with me is the quality of the footage, but the thought and engineering that went into this is amazing, in my view. Having complete control of the camera from the ground, great HD monitoring on my I Pad Air, full panoramic views from the camera...the thing flies great and the App is fabulous. I am a very happy camper.
     
    #11 Figbar, Jan 21, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2015
  12. The Editor

    The Editor Moderator
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    Hi Figbar,

    No, I meant export field order not import but you've answered the question anyway in that you are only talking about monitoring from Avid.

    Couple of questions:

    1. Do you have a realtime output card in your system so WYSIWYG from the timeline at full resolution (not proxy)?
    2. Also (and I think this may be the problem..... By putting 4k footage onto a 1080 timeline Avid is resizing (which it's not very good at in this method).
    If you are seeing the problem on export I would try making a 4k project, dumping your 4k footage to that and edit, THEN export to 1080 (preferably using Lanczos to resize and then bring your 1080 export into a 1080 project to finish and mix with your other HD footage?
     
  13. Figbar

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    I work as and editor/producer at a production house in Columbus, Ohio. We just upgraded our Avid Media Composers a week ago...so I'm just getting up to speed on how Avid deals with 4k...not really very well, I think...but again, speaking from ignorance here.

    I think Avid is still behind the curve on all of this 4 k stuff...we can't set a palate for editing size...we are still stuck with 1080...but I'm told we are now able to view this footage in it's larger size in this resolution...I just need to get up to speed on all of this...juggling clients, edits, etc.

    We do have realtime output cards to view footage real time.
     
  14. The Editor

    The Editor Moderator
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    Yayyyyy... someone that understands my language... a fellow editor lol.

    Yup - I think you're right, Avid is a little behind on handling native 4k. I'm an Edius man myself - have been for a few years as I love the realtime functionality.

    Anyhoo, I digress... It's a bit of a bummer not being able to make a 4k preset/project/palate within Avid as I think the downres would be handled better on export where you can control all the parameters than trying to edit within a 1080 palate/project. Oh well, for the time being I guess you are stuck with that.
    What I 'think' you are seeing is just the way Avid deals with resizing the 4096x2160 into 1080 for output via your preview card. I think basically it's not doing a great job of it and therefore is showing up on your monitor. However, the good news is it sounds as though the problem is not showing up on exported files at 1080 :)
     
  15. Figbar

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    I actually shot a clip...same shot, basically...at 1080 - 60fps...and started a new Avid project...1080 - 59.94 - and had the same issue with the source footage I was looking at...so I think it is more of a monitor issue with me...we've got really good engineering/tech support...I'll work this out with those guys. As I mentioned, I'm monitoring with a consumer grade Panasonic setup...I'll look at this in another suite that has a broadcast monitor and see what the deal is there. In the end, I am confident that this footage is pristine in it's native raw format...so I probably should have figured this out before starting this thread...but I (hopefully we) learned some stuff...if nothing else, what this anti-flicker deal is all about. Thanks
     
  16. The Editor

    The Editor Moderator
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    Yup - no worries. You may well find on a broadcast monitor you will not see the problem (or there will be the detail adjustments to get rid of it)
    Glad I could help on the anti flicker

    All the best
     
  17. bsigman

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    4k newbee here. shot 4k in all frame setting available and footage on SD micro skips about every 3 seconds. Used 64gh and 16gh micro that came with inspire 1 and tried Macbook air and ACER laptop Win 7. I viewed on "Final Cut Pro" and WinPlayer and all skipped. Shot next in 1080 and all looked good.
    Do I need 4k editing sw to get decent viewing in 4k? My RC monitor (ipad Air) was perfect. Thoughts?
     
  18. Figbar

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    I heard another guy with this issue...I'm not a tech head, but I suspect the card you are using can't keep up with the bitrate being generated by the camera. There are specs the card needs to have...and I think maybe your 64gb doesn't have them. Try using the 16gb card supplied with your Inspire...that's what I've been doing and no issues whatever when it comes to that. I have several 32gb cards I want to use, but have not tested them yet. If you have the same issues with the 16gb card supplied, that should help you eliminate possible causes of your symptoms.
     
  19. Figbar

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    I read your post too fast the other day when I replied to you...I've been away from the internet...It may be a card issue...try using the 16gb...but it probably is computer related? Not having enough horsepower to play the 4k seamlessly? I'm not much help here...sorry about that. You are copying the files from your sd card to your computer or good hard drive before you play/edit this stuff? Sorry about the misread of your post...moving too fast.
     
  20. Norbert58

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    Hallo from Germany,
    my name is Norbert and I`m a professional TV Producer and drohe Pilot since years. I`m one of the first owners of an Inspire 1 here in Germany. And unfortunately I have exactly the same problems with the Inspire material, when I import the material to AVID media Composer and Aviv Symphonie. my material looks exactly the same like Figbars material. To be honest, I can not use this material at the moment for TV, it looks horrible. And I can not understand an accept this, that a 3k copter makes W├Ârter pictures then all my former Phantoms with the good old GoPro. I reported this problem to the General german DJI Dealer and they reported this to the Chinese guys. They said to me that the tech gyus are thinking over to implement a 1080i mode.
    I tried already evething, filme in 4k, filme in 1080 50p 25 p (PAL). Everytime the same result, bullshit pictures.
    The issue must be in the camera with the codec. There must be a mistige in the firmware or whatever. The flying with the Indossiere 1 is totally great. I hope there will be a firmware upgrade for the camera, or a different gable with a GOPro on.
    So cross my Fingers.
    Norbert