Lifting weight capacity of I1???

[Christian Wiggers]

Will you please give me a link with a MTOM of 6218 g ?

I can assure you that takeoff weight of 3700-3800 i start handling like a pig, and the hovertime is reduced to around 10 minuts.

 

[The Editor]

Will you please give me a link with a MTOM of 6218 g ?

I can assure you that takeoff weight of 3700-3800 i start handling like a pig, and the hovertime is reduced to around 10 minuts.

Well I am not giving you a link to my ops manual but MTOM is calculated as mass of the Inspire minus X3, minus Fuel (TB47), plus additional mass of TB48 plus rated payload of 3,400G. Total MTOM of 6,218g.

 

[tcchow]

just try it today to carry 4 x 6S lipo batterties with my i1.
it is a windy day. the weight of the lipo are 1.24kg.
It can fly up but very unstable, when it goes up to the height seems fine with that weight but once it tranfer to fly mode, uoooo..... very unstable and hard to control ( winds are coming in all different direction ), I landed immediatly and given up and to carry 2 instead of four ( they are nano tech 6S 2200mah 45-90 C and weight around 720g ). than everything back to usual.

 

[Christian Wiggers]

Ok Editor then it is the way you calculated your ops manual were the problem is. Inspire1 has NOT a payload of 3400g - that is the max take off weight. I am pretty sure that at Inspire 1 with a take off weight on more than 6 kg will not lift off the ground. What tcchow write seems right above 4000g and inspire 1 is nearly impossible to controle.

 

[The Editor]

Ok Editor then it is the way you calculated your ops manual were the problem is. Inspire1 has NOT a payload of 3400g - that is the max take off weight. I am pretty sure that at Inspire 1 with a take off weight on more than 6 kg will not lift off the ground. What tcchow write seems right above 4000g and inspire 1 is nearly impossible to controle.

Oh OK, must be wrong then along with all the CAA approved ops manuals with permissions given out by the Civil Aviation Authority. You are misunderstanding the definition of MTOM (Maximum Take Off Mass)
http://dl.djicdn.com/downloads/inspire_1/en/Inspire_1_Quick_Start_Guide_v1.4_en.pdf
Appendix (Page 5), second line down "Maximum weight of payload"

 

[Christian Wiggers]

Editor your are right - it do say "Maximum weight of payload" !!! But it can also be a type error !! Maybe the tekst should have been "Maximum weight with payload".

How many other SUAS do you know that can take a payload that is 115% off the normally takeoff weight ?

On DJI site on FAQ on the Inspier 1 is the following text:
(Inspire 1 - Specs, FAQ, manual, video tutorials and DJI GO | DJI)
How much weight can the Inspire 1 carry without its included camera?

We do not recommend flying with any payload other than the included DJI gimbal and camera.

 

[Christian Wiggers]

That does not make any sense if the in a quick start guide says that it can lift a 3400 g payload !!

The quick guide will probably describe wights were it is possible and safe to fly - you said your selv it will fly like a pig.

 

[InspiredOne]

However, it WILL fly at those loading sand is within spec so would not overload the propulsion system. I would image it would handle like a pig.

 

[The Editor]

Editor your are right - it do say "Maximum weight of payload" !!! But it can also be a type error !! Maybe the tekst should have been "Maximum weight with payload".

How many other SUAS do you know that can take a payload that is 115% off the normally takeoff weight ?

On DJI site on FAQ on the Inspier 1 is the following text:
(Inspire 1 - Specs, FAQ, manual, video tutorials and DJI GO | DJI)
How much weight can the Inspire 1 carry without its included camera?

We do not recommend flying with any payload other than the included DJI gimbal and camera.

Right so......The Inspire is based on the E800 tuned propulsion system.
The recommended TOW for those 3510/KV350's are at 800g per rotor. This means that the system is designed to produce 3,200g of thrust at around mid stick or 50% power (assuming a quad configuration) to give hover.
The E800's can produce a max of 2,100g of thrust at sea level assuming a 6s pack is used swinging 13x4.5's (although that would be pushing the motor to its limits) so we can safely get 1,600g of thrust out of each motor without stressing the system.
This means we can have a take off weight of 6,400g - less than my approved ops manual figure of 6,218g
Do I need to explain any more?

 

[Outta Control]

View attachment 5105

LOL!

 

[Christian Wiggers]

Right so......The Inspire is based on the E800 tuned propulsion system.
The recommended TOW for those 3510/KV350's are at 800g per rotor. This means that the system is designed to produce 3,200g of thrust at around mid stick or 50% power (assuming a quad configuration) to give hover.
The E800's can produce a max of 2,100g of thrust at sea level assuming a 6s pack is used swinging 13x4.5's (although that would be pushing the motor to its limits) so we can safely get 1,600g of thrust out of each motor without stressing the system.
This means we can have a take off weight of 6,400g - less than my approved ops manual figure of 6,218g
Do I need to explain any more?

Look Editor I have great respect for you knowledge about Inspire 1, and SUAS in general - but in this case your are wrong in many difference ways.

1. The numbers and calculation you make does't work like that in real life. For example the motor max output is a bench test, with no limet on what amount of juice you can pull from the battery. In real life a motor can not deliver more power that the battery can deliver - Take Tesla p85d they just changede the power output form around 700 HK to 539 hk. The 2 motors may deliver 700 hk but the batteries kan not deliver enough amps so the real life power output is much lover.

2. I know you know all about how a inspire1 works. For other that may read this, you increases or decreases the power on diffrent motors to steer it. You need to have some power reserve to be abel to control the inspire1. That power reserve is rather big. For the E800 propulsion DJI recommend a takeoff weight of 800g/motor. 4 x 800= 3200 g. That means that at around 3200 g is it safe to fly. You can push the envelop a bit more, and still maintain good control - but as both tcchow and I report it is getting very hard to control when the weight come close to 4000 g.

3. Try look at this video. The inspire is without the kamera and wights therefore around 2.719 g (2935 - 216) and a payload of 1967 g = 4.686 g. Try see how difficult it is for him to controle it. And you will add 1.532 g and say it could fly because that is what is calculated ind your ops manual ?

4. What 3dpico in fact asked about was if he could pace a rig with a weight around 2 kg and with a TB 48 get 9-10 min flying time in moderate wind (10 mph gust) The wight of inspire 1 with out camera but with TB48 is 2819 g. payload 2000 g = 4.819 g. He might make it take off (if the rig has som distance so the downforce from props don't make it heavier) but it will be very hard to controle, and flying time will hardly exceed 4-5 min. flying time.

5. Talk is cheep as you say. I will (hopefully) tomorrow make a test with a scale a give you an exact number on what the maximum take off weight is for the inspire1. (the number will not be the same as a payload that is controllably to fly with but never the less.....

 

[The Editor]

Look Editor I have great respect for you knowledge about Inspire 1, and SUAS in general - but in this case your are wrong in many difference ways.

1. The numbers and calculation you make does't work like that in real life. For example the motor max output is a bench test, with no limet on what amount of juice you can pull from the battery. In real life a motor can not deliver more power that the battery can deliver - Take Tesla p85d they just changede the power output form around 700 HK to 539 hk. The 2 motors may deliver 700 hk but the batteries kan not deliver enough amps so the real life power output is much lover.

2. I know you know all about how a inspire1 works. For other that may read this, you increases or decreases the power on diffrent motors to steer it. You need to have some power reserve to be abel to control the inspire1. That power reserve is rather big. For the E800 propulsion DJI recommend a takeoff weight of 800g/motor. 4 x 800= 3200 g. That means that at around 3200 g is it safe to fly. You can push the envelop a bit more, and still maintain good control - but as both tcchow and I report it is getting very hard to control when the weight come close to 4000 g.

3. Try look at this video. The inspire is without the kamera and wights therefore around 2.719 g (2935 - 216) and a payload of 1967 g = 4.686 g. Try see how difficult it is for him to controle it. And you will add 1.532 g and say it could fly because that is what is calculated ind your ops manual ?

4. What 3dpico in fact asked about was if he could pace a rig with a weight around 2 kg and with a TB 48 get 9-10 min flying time in moderate wind (10 mph gust) The wight of inspire 1 with out camera but with TB48 is 2819 g. payload 2000 g = 4.819 g. He might make it take off (if the rig has som distance so the downforce from props don't make it heavier) but it will be very hard to controle, and flying time will hardly exceed 4-5 min. flying time.

5. Talk is cheep as you say. I will (hopefully) tomorrow make a test with a scale a give you an exact number on what the maximum take off weight is for the inspire1. (the number will not be the same as a payload that is controllably to fly with but never the less.....

I am getting a little bored with this now but.......
I am not wrong - The Inspire 1 propulsion system (E800) is rated at sea level to produce 6,400g of thrust on 13x4.5 props powered by a 6s pack at 25v. We are not talking about unlimited power or Kryptonite wires here - the maximum continuous power the esc's will take is only 20 Amps so are you saying a TB47/48 cannot sustain a 3.5c discharge rate? We would be pretty screwed if they couldn't.
Anyway, I digress: Any good multirotor platform should be designed to hover at around mid stick or just under.
We know the Inspire with TB47 and x3 comes in at just under 3kg and the recommended take off mass will be somewhere around 3,200g based on 800g per corner.
At full throttle (climb out) the motors are capable of producing a maximum (theoretical) thrust of 8,400g. In reality due to various factors which I am not prepared to go into there will be losses within the system due to physics/thermal losses, how the power is delivered etc.
Now, let's say that the propulsion system can only deliver 85% of its theoretical specs. Let's us then say that the E800's and esc's can further deliver 90% of their design parameters (not unreasonable in a well designed system).
We still come out with a thrust per corner of a little over 1,600g so back to the magic number of 50% (just under) of 800g for take off/hover and 1,600g full throttle.

I am not saying the Inspire will fly happily around with that much crap hanging off of it but as an MTOM it will theoretically lift off and get off the ground.

I am really not interested if people attach house bricks, bicycles or horses to the bottom of their aircraft, it would be outside my operating limitations and permissions and deemed illegal unless I got express permission from the CAA (which I won't bother).

 

[Kilrah]

The Inspire 1 propulsion system (E800) is rated at sea level to produce 6,400g of thrust on 13x4.5 props powered by a 6s pack at 25v.

The motors might take it, but I would not consider the "complete system" the I1 is does. Firstly nothing says the I1's ESCs are 100% identical to the standalone E800's, who knows how things are wired, and... the particular battery used in the I1 almost certainly can't take that hit given it already reaches close to the maximum acceptable temperature when flying the I1 in stock configuration. Pulling 10C continuous on them would end badly.

 

[The Editor]

The motors might take it, but I would not consider the "complete system" the I1 is does. Firstly nothing says the I1's ESCs are 100% identical to the standalone E800's, who knows how things are wired, and... the particular battery used in the I1 almost certainly can't take that hit given it already reaches close to the maximum acceptable temperature when flying the I1 in stock configuration. Pulling 10C continuous on them would end badly.

Agreed, but I am only talking about getting airborne (Maximum Take Off Mass) not going for a leisurely flight around the neighbourhood. Lifting capacity only not sustained flight.

 

[Kilrah]

It's a spec that makes no sense then. MTOM of an aircraft is what you can safely fly that aircraft at without further restrictions - Saying "it can lift off but you got to land after 30sec max" is completely useless. Besides the QSG doesn't mention that limitation if it was there, so it's obviously a "chinglish" typo/mistake.

 

[m00se]

It's a spec that makes no sense then. MTOM of an aircraft is what you can safely fly that aircraft at without further restrictions - Saying "it can lift off but you got to land after 30sec max" is completely useless. Besides the QSG doesn't mention that limitation if it was there, so it's obviously a "chinglish" typo/mistake.

unless you are talking about a hobbyking beerlift entry, then 30 seconds would be a great use for an inspire

 

[m00se]

Most multirotors need to be at about 50% thrust to hover in a stable way.
When the battery gets low, then you have less power, and people who push the limits will regret their choice.

Either way, I cant see the point of trying to lift 22 gopros on an inspire, it clearly isnt the right choice of aircraft. I could imagine it doing a 6 camera 3d rig that was well designed to be lightweight without any problems. But 22.!!! Ive never seen anyone try that. You can make some serious 3d video with 11 cameras.......

 

[3dPico]

Thank you all for such awesome feedback. I am still a novice with training wheels. I'm still developing my "home brew" Jump rig (360 video capture). The 22 I can tripod mount for trials. I'm going to make a smaller flight capable rig. Maybe 6-8. Try on the ground first to see if I can get the rigging right. The video above shows an off the shelf reasonably priced rig which is a great fallback if I can't cook something up. That company offers several sizes up to 10 I think. Stay tuned.

Right now I'm in the development phase of the data extraction and processing plan. I'm knee deep in RasPi's. Python scripts I don't understand and crazy fun wireless networking. You can see why I was drawn to the I1. It's a flying computer with some whacky I/O and a webcam!

Again, thank you so much. Will post progress for sure.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[damoncooper]

Oh OK, must be wrong then along with all the CAA approved ops manuals with permissions given out by the Civil Aviation Authority. You are misunderstanding the definition of MTOM (Maximum Take Off Mass)
http://dl.djicdn.com/downloads/inspire_1/en/Inspire_1_Quick_Start_Guide_v1.4_en.pdf
Appendix (Page 5), second line down "Maximum weight of payload"

I think that's just a Chinglish issue

 

[Christian Wiggers]

I am getting a little bored with this now but.......
I am not wrong

I am sorry to say - you are wrong !!!

I am not sorry that you are getting a little bored, because I did not write my previous post to entertain you or amuse you - I wrote them because what your comment in your post were wrong and confusing for the user that had a real life problem.

The Inspire 1 will not fly above 1-2 feet (because of the ground effect) in any way or circumstances if the total weight is above 5.500 gram !!!

As I wrote earlier the way is not to calculate it but to test it in real life - and that is exactly what I did yesterday.

The wind was moderate 6-7 m/sek (13 - 15 mph) the temperature 10 degrees (50 fahrenheit) and it was 91 meter over sea level ind Denmark.

The Inspire 1 (with my configuration) weighs 3.388 g. including the 4 meter line i used to this test.
The battery (TB48) was fully charge and have only been had around 15 cycles. I used brand new props.



I used a helping hand and a precise fishing scale. I was upside down so the Inspire 1 not had to lift the wight of the scale also.

With full throttle it was maxout at 2.055 gram. But most readings was about 1700-1800 gram.
It was not possible to get continuous scale readings due to the circumstances with wind gust and a helper that was fighting to holde the scale steady so the scale never logged on a number.

3.388 g + 2.055 g = 5.443 gram max lifting power.

A note is that even that I have way over 100 hours flying with the phantom 2 and inspire 1 and I am a approved commercial drone operator in Denmark, it was very,very hard to fly the inspire 1 with full throttle - it was all over the place.

So Editor, I actually don't care about what your OPS manuel says or how you make your calculations.
If your take off weight is 6.218 gram your inspire 1 will not lift 1 inch off the ground (even with help of the ground effect.)

A realistic MTOM ought to be 5.500 g, or more likely 5.300 g and with that take off weight you will properly not be able to controle it because all 4 motors is maxout. But again I don't care if your OPS Manuel is wrong, that is your problem not mine.

Thank you all for such awesome feedback. I am still a novice with training wheels. I'm still developing my "home brew" Jump rig (360 video capture). The 22 I can tripod mount for trials. I'm going to make a smaller flight capable rig. Maybe 6-8. Try on the ground first to see if I can get the rigging right. The video above shows an off the shelf reasonably priced rig which is a great fallback if I can't cook something up. That company offers several sizes up to 10 I think. Stay tuned

That sounds like a good idea. It is ind fact pretty simpel. The more weight you make your Inspire 1 carry the shorter flying time you will have, and more difficult it will be to controle. My advice would be to keep it under 4.000 gram and try to fly it when there is very little wind. Good luck with your project - look forward to se what you can make