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UK Copyright End Usage

Discussion in 'Certified UAV Pilots' started by tweaker, Jan 27, 2016.

  1. tweaker

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    Just a straw poll on others views on copyright.

    I have done some work for a client who is a repeat customer.

    The stated footage end use was for social media.

    This was done verbally and I have,obviously, as they are repeat client a good professional relationship with them.

    However they have a few weeks a go gave footage to a regional news channel who broadcasted my footage mixed in with the reporters footage.

    Now how would others handle this?

    If I let it go how do I brooch the subject next time film without souring a good relationship

    I am pretty sure they where not pulling a fast one when they commissioned me?
     
  2. IrishSights

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    You the photographer always owns the copyright...Unless you sell it for high price! Just licence them for the stated use and explicitly state that another licence is required if the photo is used outside of the stated use. A licence for social media use would be much higher price than a broadcast licence or publication licence. You basically set your own banding vs price scale. I don't do a lot but did recently licence a photo for a 15,000 print run publication with no other uses and no onward selling.

    I would be very interested in how other photographers handle licencing their material. I did post the question a while back in the Certified pilots forum but got zero responses!
     
  3. licensed pilot

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    Spell out the job in a written contract. Research photo and video rights on the web. If the news report gave you credit u may look at it as free ad.
     
  4. The Editor

    The Editor Moderator
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    Always, ALWAYS get a written contract. It saves so much aggrevation if there is a dispute or issue after the event.
    I did a job recently for a local charity. It basically was for free so long as they credited me on their website and all video was watermarked with my logo.
    I retained all rights.
    We signed a contract with a consideration of £1/$1 to make it binding and legal.
    Even if its your friends - have a contract ready and explain you have one for every single job.
    It really saves headaches.
     
  5. tweaker

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    Written contract now getting written up!

    I know my day rates.

    However whats going rate for having done a job then client wants to give it to a third party? Ie they have it for social media then want to pass it to a tv station?
     
  6. IrishSights

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    Basically they are in breach of the licence with them if they share with TV. They cannot re-licence your work to a third party. Licence/contracts are so important. The TV folk need a separate licence from you.
     
  7. tweaker

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    Yes I know they are in breach of licence and legally I would win.

    However I get regular work with them and they probably did not try to pull one over on me.

    I do not want to cut my nose off to spite my face over it this one time.

    I just want to put them straight without alienating/embarrassing them but also avoid it happening again.

    What is the going rate for footage used by a TV on regional news? Anyone have any experience?
     
  8. The Editor

    The Editor Moderator
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    How long is a piece of string?
    News stations will say they have fixed rates but depending on content......
    The Houses of Parliament expoding from the Air - name your price
    A burning haystack in a farmers field - £250.
     
  9. tweaker

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    Fantastic.

    Im off to find a haystack......

    If I cannot find a haystack and I happened to come across a news station how much generally are their "fixed rates?"

    Is it a one fee only deal or per showing? ( As I unravel a long ball of string);)
     
    The Editor likes this.
  10. The Editor

    The Editor Moderator
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    I wasn't joking when I said £250 !
    But it does vary and can be negotiable but..... Here is the problem.
    Most news companies will want exclusive rights to the content for 10 years which entitles them to transmit that clip via any media they see fit for up to 120 months.
    You can usually get them to credit your work with each showing but you really are selling yourself to the devil.
    ITV standard contracts for instance are in perpetuity (if you accept them)
    You have to weigh up the 'advertising' factor you get from a National station crediting your work against the often derisory payment you receive.
    And don't forget - nobody wants yesterday's news which is why these companies act fast and make you decide very quickly since tomorrow your footage could be worthless !
    One final thing - don't agree to a deal which only pays if they use the footage and pays nothing if they don't!
     
  11. 10forty2

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    My best advice to answer your direct question on standard fees is to call a few stations and simply ask the question on how much they pay for like media that they didn't shoot? I suspect the answer will be similar to what you are getting here....."it depends."

    As for copyright stuff...in the US, all media is the intellectual property of the creator until such a time it is transferred by the creator. If the material is used without permission, there MAY be legal relief in the form of cease and desist. HOWEVER, if the media is not officially and properly registered with the US Copyright Office, there can be no monetary relief awarded to the creator by a court as a punishment. It's the bane of existence for fine art photographers. We do own the material legally regardless of whether it is registered, but if someone uses it without our permission and it's not registered, all we can hope for is a slap on the hand to the violator and an order to not do it again.

    If it were me in your position, and I had a good working relationship with repeat business with them, I would simply discuss it with your point of contact to let them know in a professional manner that you are aware of the alternate usage and that for the future you will have to issue a new license for that use along with additional fees. I'd probably chalk this one up to a learning experience. You'll likely get a better relationship with them for letting this one slide with an explanation, but maintaining a professional business attitude for future transactions. If they don't understand, then I'm not sure I'd want to do any more business with them in the first place.
     
  12. tweaker

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    10forty2

    Thanks.

    Thats pretty much what I have figured I would do before I even started the thread. I just wanted to tap in to the knowledge base on here and soak up the knowledge.

    Love hearing peoples opinions/ideas even though I generally make my own mind up unless someone disrupts my logic and puts another spin on it that I had not thought through.
     
  13. DennisR

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    They cant do that. It always helps to watermark your stock so others can t use it. Im sure your client thought it was ok to use but its not.
     
  14. DennisR

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    I also dont know if you are licensed or not but if you are not, then its really advertising you are working unlicensed and I would be more worried about that.
    I never give the client the raw footage. We get paid to create a commercial or video and the footage we take is for that purpose only. The footage is our work and they cant just take it and give it to a third party. In Australia, I would think it reasonable to ask for $400 for footage they can use as news. Remember, you may have shot it as social media but the tv station are showing it to make money and that makes it a commercial venture.
     
  15. tweaker

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    I am licensed as I am posting in "certified UAV Pilots".......

    Why do you never give the client RAW footage? Have you been burnt in the past?

    No skin iff my nose if they just want the RAW.

    Yes I do the full enchilada if the client wants but if the client just wants the RAW as he will edit etc whats the problem?

    I still have a copy of the footage and all rights as well as quickly moving on via the battery recharging station to the next client.
     
  16. DennisR

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    Its not the clients footage and I have been caught by them taking the footage and giving it to someone else to edit. I mostly do tv commercials so can never allow a client to have the footage for other uses apart from social media. How can it be no skin off your nose? Don't you get paid for the work you do?
     
  17. tweaker

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    Yes I get paid for the work I do.

    Its no skin off my nose because the client comes to me looking to me for either aerial footage and or editing.

    The clients requirement obviously shapes my particular business model and dealings with them.

    For example if the client wants me to film for them for a week as they do not have aerial platforms but they do have editing facilities i s it a wise move/business model to say no?

    Happy client now on the books and more time to move onto next paying client who may require RAW/Editing or whatever.

    See what I mean about being no skin off my nose? I can still do what I want with the footage. Someone has paid money for me to add to my b-roll collection that I may or may not use in another project someway further along the line.

    I have read your last post and do not really understand your business model or what you mean by ".... and I have been caught by them taking the footage and giving it to someone else to edit."

    Anyway thats how I roll YMMV.
     
  18. DennisR

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    Sorry.. Im not really with you on this. If you give the client your footage they can take it and give it to someone else to edit if they want. My main work is tv commercials and I had been caught before with a client using my footage elsewhere. I have been in this business 18 years and as good as my relationship with my clients, there will always come a time when this will happen if they get the footage. I don't even show a client the footage I have taken on the day. My job is to create a commercial or video. The footage is mine.
     
  19. The Editor

    The Editor Moderator
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    Yes - if that is what you are doing but the rest of the world isn't TV commercials.
    If you are asked to do aerial work for the BBC in a production do you really think they want you to edit and produce the work? No, they simply want you to get the show the DP asks for and then you hand over the raw media to post. They will edit, grade and distribute as they want......its THEIR production, their copyright. We have a member on here who was asked to shoot some footage for a recent Coca Cola advert. Do you honestly think he had control and say as to how that footage was distributed?
    It all depends, and I go back to my original post on this thread, on how the contract is worded. If you givebupmyour rights in that contract, you give up your rights. That's it.
    This is why it is crucial to have a contract in place from the very beginning before you have even turned up on location.
     
  20. DennisR

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    Thats up to you but I don't film if I don't get the edit. I just don't do it. Im an editor first. Thats how I make my money. The filming is just to give me footage to edit with. Theres no way Im going to use my camera skills and lens which give me a point of difference to give to other people.