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X5 motion blur

Discussion in 'Zenmuse X5' started by gray52, Mar 4, 2016.

  1. gray52

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    Loving the x5, but in video mode I'm getting motion blur when yawing. Any ideas how to stop this? X3 hardly has any. Quality of the photos with detail is amazing compared to the x3.
     
  2. Luis Morales

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    if you use a slow shutter it will give a lot of motion blur.
     
  3. DennisR

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    I think it may be because the X5 shoots in progressive mode. You will have to learn to shoot like a film camera and pan slowly. This might help you.
    DVuser: The Art of Shooting Progressive
     
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  4. Luis Morales

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    the article you point has this to day

    "When shooting in progressive mode don’t forget to turn the shutter on and set it to 1/50th. This is the equivalent of a ‘double gate’ effect of a projector i.e. sharpening up the look of the footage. With no shutter the footage will have a slight ‘blur’ about it."

    which is basically what we do set the shutter to double the frame rate.
     
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  5. Casey Preston

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    I'm going to be making an assumption that you are shooting in Auto (A). You need to set the camera to manual (M) or shutter priority (S), if either of those are an option, and set the shutter to at least 1/160 or 160 or whatever. I don't have the X5 set up right now. In auto, the camera will tend to try to keep the shutter speed lower in video (usually 1/100) by closing the aperture or f stop. Since the X3 doesn't have an aperture, the camera just sets the shutter speed to be much faster and you lose the natural motion blur that most people actually want when displaying video.
     
  6. JMac

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    I am getting the opposite. My video is clear but choppy on the yaw access. Is that because I am shooting in 4K ? Thanks
    Jay
     
  7. Casey Preston

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    If you don't want it choppy, you need to reduce the the shutter rate to 1/60 or less and turn down the sharpening. Also, the pan needs to be really slow or be following a moving object for the viewer to not notice strobing. The X5, with it's low bitrate, also has a general problem with pans due to the interframe compression. One way to overcome some of the problem is to shoot at higher frame rates while keeping the shutter rate as slow as possible and then possibly slow it down in post.
     
  8. JMac

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    Thanks for the info! I tried to post the clip but it is 120 MB. Seems ok in forward flight but you are correct with the bite rate. It seems like the 4k is too much. I may reduce it to 1080p. I will be doing some test flying this weekend. I bought the pro to shoot in 4K. My mac is new and has lots of power play the video so it is not a processing issue. I thought I would see if this is the norm. I am running 24 frames per second and double the shutter speed.
     
  9. gruvpix

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    Dumb question, but could it look choppy simply because you are shooting in a low frame rate, 24p? I mean on any camera there is going to be a noticeable stutter when panning quickly if you are shooting at 24p, it's the nature of the frame rate.
    But yea post up a video example if you have the chance so we can see
     
  10. JMac

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    It could be. I also was in Auto and not manual mode. I will try and post a video. I may have to compress it into a smaller format.
     
  11. gruvpix

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    I would say more than half of the people who shoot drone stuff as a hobby just set it to 24p without any rational reason why besides 'i heard it looks the most film-like'. Not to be critical and not saying that is you, but it's important to know why shoot in 24 vs. 30 vs. 60. We shoot everything in 30 or 60 unless asked by a client to shoot in 24. Why? More frames to work with and smoother motion, plus it is television standard. It might not look the most 'film-like', but we aren't making films, we are making docs, commercials, corporate videos, etc., for which you would like to have the extra flexibility.
     
  12. Casey Preston

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    The standard rule of thumb when shooting motion in 24p is that it should take at least 7 seconds for an object to cross from one side of the screen to the other in order to not notice strobing or judder. In addition, the X5 creates it's own strobing issues due to the compression. Therefore, if you really want to do a pan of a scenery at 24p, it needs to be really slow and controlled.
     
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  13. JMac

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    Thanks for the response. My old industrial heli platform I use to shoot everything in 1080p at 60. I was more on the photo end. I am new to this Inspire 1 pro setup but know my old gear was very clear and sharp. I will experiment this weekend and see what kind of footage I can get. Thanks for the input and the quick responses. I have read a lot about the issues with the x5 camera over the pass few months.
     
  14. DennisR

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    The X5 shoots in progressive mode which means it shoots jpegs every second. Any sideways movement will create "judder" if the frame rate is not high enough. Most consumer cameras shoot interlaced so judder is avoided. What you are noticing is the effect of working with a camera that works like a film camera so you have to learn to shoot like a film camera. You will get awful judder on pans if you use 24 frames a second. Have a read on progressive shooting and it will be clear to you.
     
  15. DennisR

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    I dont know if there have been many issues that are not operator related. The X5 is a real camera and has to be treated like a real camera. It is not for the novice of photography. It has certainly been tough to set the lens calibration but apart from that, it is great. It was made for the experienced camera operator to use and anyone without camera experience would find problems using it.
     
  16. JMac

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    I did some reading. I have only had it up twice. My calibration looks good. My main concern was that I changed the sd card and it was choppy (judder). I didn't know how different progressive vs interlace could be. I haven't had the time or weather to change setting. Thanks for the knowledge and helping out to all.
     
  17. DennisR

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    If you take notice in any drama series you will see the camera follow the subject. When an actor sits down, the camera will track with them. The background will judder and to minimise that they use a shallow depth of field to make it blur. Its a bit of getting used to and a huge difference. If something moves across the screen on a passive camera you will get judder. If you track the subject with the camera you will get the subject in focus and the background will judder.
     
  18. Casey Preston

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    It's not necessarily a progressive vs interlace issue, although 60i will have less noticeable judder than 24p. 24p has an aesthetic that some people really appreciate but, as DennisR said, there are certain tricks required to overcome its limitations in relating to motion. In general, if you are shooting a web video in which you want to do pans of landscapes then 24p won't do you any favors. It's probably best just to stick with 30p or 60p.
     
  19. DennisR

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    Yes.. you are right. 60i is interlaced so there shouldn't be any judder at all. 60P is best i think. Im in Pal land so we shoot 25P or 50P.
     
  20. The Editor

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    Dennis I'm sorry but I have to correct you on this. I am afraid this information is totally wrong and shows a lack of basic understanding on how a video camera works.
    The X5 DOES NOT shoot jpegs every second as you call it (or even 25 or 30 jpegs every second).
    It uses an intra frame codec to record the difference information between changes in image at a set number of frames. (The interval being the i-frame v b or p-frame spacing) The X5 uses H264 compression algorithm contained in a .mov/mpeg4 wrapper/container.
    This codec bases it's recording not on jpeg frames but on temporal difference values in pixel data between timebase frames. It is the difference that is compressed and recorded as data - not frames or jpegs. There are other things taken into account whilst compression is occuring like Inter Prediction where differing methods of predicting inter-coded macro blocks in the b or p slice compression data stream is utilised as well transformation and quantization applied to the 4x4 (luma as well as chroma blocks) sampling within the codec. There are no jpegs anywhere near this technology and they are not recorded as such.
    The X5 is a poor consumer micro 4/3rds camera which DJI has made a hash of in an effort to get it out the door quickly.
    It is so far removed from a 'real' or pro camera it would be embarrassing to put them in the same room together.
    The X5 has no professional features on it whatsoever (other than possibly peaking and zebras which are even making it down to consumer offerings now) and it has a list of problems which DJI has yet to address.
    The X5 gives no paint ability so a user is unable to alter the color matrix profiles to match between cameras or even get the damn colors to the correct points on a vectorscope!
    It has an industry low standard woefully low bitrate of VBR 60mbps . Even 'toy' consumer handycams are shooting at 100mbps and beyond for less than a third of the price.
    The X5 utilises a dynamic knee in its gamma curve! This is a fudge by DJI to make out the camera has a better dynamic range than it actually does. This is a trick that has been used to try and push the DR but it doesn't work well at all and could be argued is a marketing ploy to advertise the X5 as being better than it actually is.
    It has no proper sharpening adjustments whereby both frequency and crispning can be adjusted in the horizontal and vertical axis.
    There is no adjustment for iris tracking speed. Likewise there is no adjustment for WB tracking or offset.
    There are currently (acknowledged) problems with sharpness (or lack of it) when using D-Log (which isn't true D-Log), ISO flicker caused by a badly constructed codec and intra frame pulsing.
    I could go on but you get the idea! The X5 is an imaging device based on the micro 4/3rds system. It has been implemented badly and shows DJI's total lack of understanding, expertise or experience with cameras and is a million miles away from a professional piece of kit.
    I have no idea what you have been shooting on for the last 30 years Dennis but it has not been capturing jpegs in a continuous stream that's for sure! Even mature codecs like long GOP mpeg2 which has been used in the industry for years does not and never has recorded jpegs!
     
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